Mafia involvement in Boxing

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by la-califa, Oct 31, 2008.



  1. Russell

    Russell VIP Member Full Member

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    Also, Basilio gave the entire mob a big fan collective go **** yourself, just to let that be known.
     
  2. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Boxing was controlled by powerful promoters like Mike Jacobs and the IBC. How much the mafia called the tune or fixed fights is not clear, but it did happen.

    Hurt:
    Harry Matthews--there was actually a congressional inquiry into why he was frozen out of a title fight.
    Billy Graham

    Helped:
    Primo Carnera (though perhaps not to the extent the sensationalized fiction would have it)
    Billy Fox
    Hurricane Jackson (there were plenty of rumours his fights were not on the level)
    Kid Gavilan

    A large number of top black fighters were frozen out but it is not clear if this was due to Mafia manipulation or the racism of the time. Certainly some outstanding black fighters got to and stayed on the top.
     
  3. heehoo

    heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member

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    There was in fact, a Mafia guy went up to him and asked to carry a guy. Maricano literally kicked that guy out of his dressing room and told him in no uncertain terms to go **** himself, at least from what I understood.
     
  4. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Mafia guys tended to be boxing fans, though, so fixing major fights may not have been as common as believed, and they tended to admire the top fighters. Robinson apparently agreed a number of times to carry a fight to a decision on orders. In one of those bouts there was a hot exchange and Robinson instinctively let go a combination that sent his opponent down for the count. Robby was shitting bricks about being taken for a ride, but the Mafia guy just told him "Forget it, Ray. Those things happen."
     
  5. Russell

    Russell VIP Member Full Member

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    Heard about that too. Always makes me laugh. :happy:lol:
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jack Hurley ,Mathews manager was offered a LH title shot but declined it.He wanted a fight with Marciano ,and the bigger purse that went with it ,Hurley was a shrewd old bird ,and knew the reality of Mathews abilities ,he built him up skillfully ,referring to him as "The Athlete".Marciano exposed Mathews for the built up hype that he was.The head of the IBC was James Norris the multi millionaire ,but his matchmaking went for approval to Frankie Carbo before it was finalized.Carbo had various stooges as managers of fighters ,including,HymieWallman,Wiile Ketchum,Al Weill,Joe Barone etc ,but they all paid a % to Carbo .Ray Arcel refused to have Carbo monopolize his options as a manager and was given a lead pipe beating as a result.Another Champ who came indirectly under Carbo's thumb was Joey Giardello.The story that Marciano was told to carry a fighter is incorrect ,he was asked to take a dive ,with the assurance that the return would be with the cuffs off,he went
    into a rage at the proposition ,shouting "get out of my sight ,you of my race,I can't believe you could ask me to do that,apparently the Mob thought about this and concluded that Rocky was excused any reprisal .
     
  7. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You are giving the IBC spin on Matthews. Matthews defeated Murphy in a one-sided bout but Murphy was then given the shot at Maxim. The Ring Magazine rated Matthews the best p4p fighter in the world in their Feb, 1952 issue. When Matthews upset Layne to become a heavyweight threat, the IBC offered a fight with Maxim, but Hurley opted to go after Marciano. He thought Matthews could outbox Marciano and then take the aging Walcott. Bill Gallo mentioned on ESPN that many insiders agreed with Hurley that Matthews could indeed take Marciano. Matthews was knocked out by Marciano, but then again so was everyone else.

    My take on Matthews is that after the age of 18 he was beaten only by Marciano and top five fighters Chase, Booker, and Cockell. He may also have been slipping by the time of the Cockell fights, the first two of which were razor tight. Matthews retired with a bad back in the third.
    All in all, probably an underrated fighter.
     
  8. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I agree with OLD Fogey that a lot of the Mob fixing fights are overated. A lot of it had to do with getting the OK to get a title shot. Everyone knew Jake Lamotta deserved one but they got him to drop one to Billy Fox....JJWalcott had some connections but he fought on the level using his skills and connections to fight for the title but it did not help him get the decision.
     
  9. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Active Member Full Member

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    Does Don King count as "mafia involvement"? :D
     
  10. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He did control most of the Alphabet groups and was caught fixing the ring ratings by paying off John Ort. It was not the Italian mob but it was Organized Crime
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm giving what I have read from various sources, I have no axe to grind ,re Mathews.I don't think Hurley really thought Mathews had much of a chance against Marciano.
     
  12. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why was Hurley so disappointed in Matthews for losing then?

    I think Hurley saw himself as the manager of the next heavyweight champion.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This was a Rex Layne who had been kod by Charles and brutally by Marciano ,he would gain a debatable dec against Charles ,then lose to him again ,he was definitely on the slide, by the time he fought Mathews.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If Hurley thought Mathews was that good, why didnt he take the LH shot against Maxim? Surely as a LH Champ he would have commanded a bigger purse against heavyweight challenger Marciano?
     
  15. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    My guess is that he felt Matthews would beat Marciano and then go on to fight Walcott. The problem with fighting Maxim is that Joey always hung close with everyone and Hurley might have had some doubts if Matthews would get a fair shake from the judges with the IBC having such control. Both Maxim and Matthews liked to box and counter. A fight between them might have been a strategic affair.

    If Matthews fought Maxim, Marciano would have gone on to fight Walcott most likely, with Charles next in line. Hurley could not have known that Layne would upset Charles.

    Hurley also claimed that Matthews was having trouble making the lightheavy limit and in fact he never fought as a lightheavy again after the Marciano bout.

    Having seen both Maxim and Matthews against Murphy, I would rate Matthews at least even money against Maxim and possibly a slight favorite.