Make your case: Convince me Monzon wasnt an average MW Champ

Monzon's record was too good to deny him the highest standing, I would say:

1. Went undefeated for 13 years and 82 fights--How many can match that in the modern, post ND era? Robinson and Chavez on fights, but Monzon's string, unlike theirs, was at the end of his career and he went out on top.

2. His record, according to the Boxing Register, against fighters rated when he fought them is 15-0. No fighter since the ratings began can match that number of victories over rated fighters without losing. Marciano is next at 11-0.

3. His record against men who were ever rated by Ring Magazine is 20-0-2, with both draws avenged with victories. He is the only fighter to have as many as 20 fights against ever-rated opposition and to defeat all of them.

4. His record against Hall-of-Famers is a perfect 5-0. Since the beginning of boxing, only Marciano (6-0) and Tom Cribb (5-0) also have as many as five victories over Hall-of-Fame competition without a loss or draw.

5. He reigned as champion over 7 years and 15 fights, defeating all the top contenders, and ended his run by defeating his heir apparent, the very capable Rodrigo Valdez, twice.

I can't honestly think of another fighter who fought 16 years without ever being stopped while proving himself superior to all his competition. The only honest criticism I can see making is that he never stepped up in class to fight a bigger man, unlike several of the other top middles such as Fitz, Greb, Walker, Robinson, Tiger, and Hopkins. I would rate him the favorite or even money against absolutely anyone at 160 lbs.

 

Powerful post with little subjectivity or speculation, Old Fogey. Several of those statistics are just astonishing.

A sidenote: the one who comes closest to his achievements in terms of contenders beaten, record against Hall-of-Famers, etc, Marciano, also looks unimpressive on film at first sight.

 

To see Monzon for the first time, one may get the impression of the initial poster. Slow. Nothing special. Boring. But similar to what his opponents experienced, you're falling into Monzon's trap. To think of him as "nothing special" may be just the way Monzon liked it.

My initial impressions of Monzon were very similar-what happened was, I went back to the footages after watching more of his opposition. Carlos neutralized them with his Art of War in attrition tactics. Round by round. Drop by drop.

He is also one of the most ACCURRATE punchers I've ever seen,.

The job he did on Briscoe in their title bout was simply dominating. He also took matters into his own hands against Nino, before giving him an opportunity go on one of his post-fight, Italian tragedy tirades on how he was wronged.

Many folks tend to marvel at the dazzling displays of speed/athleticism in the vein of Sugar Ray, the Keed, or in recent times, RJJ & PBF. Monzon was gifted in other ways. There were very few champions who EXECUTED what they wanted to do in the manner he did.

I have mixed feelings on Monzon personally, but as a fighter, there is no question IMHO.

 

Wonderfully articulated, N. You're a welcome addition here.

 

:happy

 

Excellent commentary. Funny quote on Nino.

 

Thank you for the compliments, Mr. Garfield & Seamus. This site seems to have much "movement" & "action".

As for my comments on Nino, he sure was dramatic in his losses! His post-fight interviews are worth the price of admission.

 

Amazing stuff, and welcome to the boards!

 

....
He was undefeated for the last 13 years of his professional career.
He was undefeated in his last 80 professional fights.
He lost only three very early-career fights, all of which were avenged.
He made 14 successful title defenses without even once being in serious danger of losing a fight and then retired as champion.
He defeated each of his two preceding middleweight champions twice, and later beat his successive middleweight championship heir twice while in his mid-30s and past his prime.
If you know all these things and think he was an "average middleweight champion," I think you may be beyond help.

 

Not to mention the guy was a road warrior. That's the rarest of breeds. He easily could've fought in his backyard anytime he wanted > the Benvenuti fight. And fighting Benvenuti in Italy is hardly a soft touch kind of fight either.

Lots of bad things happen to the road warriors but King Carlos turned those dangerous waters into a non-factor in those title fights.

 

Good post

 

Analysis of Monzon's fight with a primitive fighter like Briscoe is hardly a proof of his greatness. Briscoe was an inconsistent journeyman, tough and strong, but there had been hundreds of fighters with these two qualities.

 

This is his most impressive attribute for me. Well, save his undefeated streak at the end of his career. The fact that, of all the great champions since the war, he probably defended on his own patch the least.

 

I think Monzon is a tad over rated. Some say top 3 ATG at middle. Not me. What did Monzon do well? He wasn't fast, or a big puncher. And I agree his competion wasn't great and featured quite a few blown up welter's.

Monzon was like a great long distance runner. A true 15 round fighter who could keep up his pace, and pass his man late. That and a good chin were his best talents.

 

He was a big puncher, with one of the most effective right hands ever.