Manny Pacquaio - Phenomena or Phantom?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by SJS19, Feb 8, 2012.


  1. SJS19

    SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Manny Pacquaio has been a Mega-star in the sport of Boxing ever since his destruction of Mexican-American PPV giant Oscar De La Hoya back in December of 2008. Moving up to meet De La Hoya at Welterweight had many writing off the Philippine Champion.


    Pacquaio had after all, only had one fight at Lightweight, after spending the majority of his career in the lower weight classes, most notably in the Featherweight and Super Featherweight divisions where he beat All time greats such as Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales twice each, and split a debated victory and draw with Juan Manuel Marquez. His only real blemish being a unanimous decision loss to El Terrible in their very first match up. This article is not to discuss that part of Pacquaio's career which rightfully sees him enter the sports top 100 ATG's.


    The idea that Pacquaio could beat Oscar De La Hoya was largely dismissed by the Boxing world, Oscar was too big; he'd fought as high as 160lbs, to Pacquaio's 135, and Boxing is full of cases where the smaller man has failed to best his larger foe. As it transpired, Boxing's experts were wrong, Pacquaio didn't just beat De La Hoya, he destroyed him. De La Hoya had been beaten before in his illustrious career, but nobody had ever run through him, and here was this Lightweight sensation, this bundle of dynamite, changing Boxing's future inside eight one-sided brutal rounds.
    A victory over Oscar De La Hoya in front of millions on PPV, did for Pacquaio exactly what it had done for Floyd Mayweather before him, turned him into a star. Pacquaio went from Boxer to celebrity. Already treated as an Icon in his native Philippines, Pacquaio was now appreciated world wide, as he should have been; the peasant had become a king.


    Once the hype had died down, word came out of Oscar De La Hoya's struggle to make weight. The Golden Boy had not made the Welterweight limit of 147lbs in close to 7 years by the time he fought Pacquaio, and had used extreme methods to force his body weight that low for their match-up.
    Manny Pacquaio's trainer Freddie Roach vividly re-calls having seen fresh needle marks on Oscar's arms as the Referee was giving the fighters their instructions, this implied that De La Hoya (as evidenced by his incredibly low fight night weight) had not been able to get any substantial foods or liquids into his system since the weigh in, and his team had resorted to attempting to use an IV to force fluids into the De-Hydrated fighter.


    For those of you who are unfamiliar, using an IV to re-hydrate a fighter so close to the fight is not only dangerous, but has a major effect on that persons body. It slows the fighter down and makes them sluggish, De La Hoya who was not as fast as he once was, had still re-tained some speed into his later years; yet it was non existent this night, as he took straight left hands to the head repeatedly. De La Hoya's face showed markings, bruises for the first time in his 45 fight career, it did not take a doctor to see that all was not right with De La Hoya.


    Next up, Pacquaio signed to fight 140lb Champion Ricky Hatton, who had restored his marketability after a TKO loss to Floyd Mayweather, with a victory over Paulie Mallignagi.
    This Writer has no quarrel with Pacquaio's win over Hatton and feels that it should be viewed as a legitimate win, over a fighter who was past his peak, yet not so far gone as to be considered shot.


    Pacquaio's team then declined to fight the Official number one Welterweight in the world, Sugar Shane Mosley, claiming that he was too big. Later it emerged that they were prepared to fight Mosley, yet only at a catch-weight of 143lbs, one that Shane could not make.


    Pacquaio instead signed to fight the number two Welterweight, Miguel Cotto of Puerto Rico.
    The fight was for Cotto's 147lb title, yet had a catch-weight limit of 145lbs. Cotto who shared Bob Arum as a promoter with Pacquaio, agreed to the stipulation and the fight was set. Again, most of the Boxing world wrote off Pacquaio, Cotto was not a weight drained Oscar De La Hoya, he was a strong true Welterweight, who was skilled and not afraid to fight with the Philippine star.
    Pacquaio did indeed look to be having some difficulty with Miguel Cotto in the early rounds, taking some punishment and splitting the rounds with the Champion. Then in the fourth round, Pacquaio dropped Cotto, and the entire complexion of the fight changed. The bigger man was forced to retreat from the forward fighting Pacquaio, it was quite a sight. Miguel Cotto, the feared warrior of Puerto Rico, forced to back pedal to avoid Manny Pacquaio, the man who most experts had again, dismissed as biting off more than he could chew.


    Pacquaio knocked Miguel Cotto out in the 12th and final round. He was now a Welterweight Champion of the world, yet again; there are questions to be asked about the state of Miguel Cotto going into this fight. Let me be clear, I consider Miguel Cotto to be a fantastic win, probably second only to the first win over Barrera in Pacquaio's career, but there are some circumstances that can not be ignored. Firstly, Miguel Cotto had recently suffered his first professional defeat at the hands of Antonio Margarito, and not only was Cotto defeated, but he was bloodied and battered that night. Margarito was later found guilty of attempting to use loaded hand wraps against Sugar Shane Mosley, leading most Boxing experts to believe that he had done the same (only without getting caught) against Miguel Cotto. People also overlook the fact that Cotto had a brutal fight with Joshua Clottey, escaping with a thin points victory which many dispute. Cotto also refused to hire a proper coach for the Pacquaio fight, instead choosing to rely on inexperienced Joe Santiago, who most of us will agree was well out of his depth. Pacquaio has a great win here, but again; there are some curious circumstances. Bob Arum, being the promoter of both, would have been very aware of Cotto's problems.


    Next to sign and fight Manny Pacquaio was Ghana's Joshua Clottey. Clottey who is also promoted by Bob Arum, was regarded at a tough, strong Welterweight with great defence and solid punching power, as mentioned he had pushed Miguel Cotto all the way in their bout. Clottey fought the whole fight defensively; largely refusing to leave his turtle shell defence and engage with the smaller Pacquaio. It's worth noting that when Clottey did punch, he would land.


    Again I have no real quarrel with this victory, it's a solid if unspectacular win. Clottey also had problems, like Cotto with his trainer for this fight. The man who was supposed to train Clottey could not leave Ghana due to Visa problems, meaning that Cut-man, Lenny De Jesus was promoted to lead trainer, was De Jesus out of his depth? Would a more experienced trainer of made a difference? I'm doubtful of both, but they are points worth making.


    Pacquaio's next fight was for the 154lb championship of the world, dubiously the fight was set with a catch-weight of 150lbs. Even more outrageous was the fact that Pacquaio's opponent for this fight was disgraced former Champion Antonio Margarito who had only had one recent fight at the 154lb limit as opposed to Pacquaio's zero. Margarito had also only fought once in over a year, having been suspended for trying to load his gloves against Mosley.


    Pacquaio won the fight, beating Margarito to a pulp over twelve brutal rounds, winning what some consider to be his eight weight world title. I dispute this, to fight for a world title at 154lbs should mean that the weight limit is 154lbs. I don't disagree with him fighting the larger Margarito at 150lbs, but I don't think it should have been for a Championship belt, I find that disgraceful. Once again, Margarito was also promoted by Bob Arum, and I expect the Top Rank CEO to have pulled a few strings to get this farce of a fight sanctioned.
     
  2. SJS19

    SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Next, Pacquaio signed to fight Sugar Shane Mosley. Now this Shane Mosley is very different to the one I mentioned earlier; at that time, Mosley had just knocked out the thought to be unstoppable Antonio Margarito, establishing himself at the number one Welterweight in the world and member of Boxing's P4P listings. Since then, Mosley had been decisively beaten by Floyd Mayweather Junior, and had been considered lucky to receive a draw against the unheralded Sergio Mora.
    Pacquaio's team was now ready to sign and fight Mosley at the full 147lb limit, not the 143lb catch-weight that they had offered the man a few years prior. Mosley signed with Top Rank and Bob Arum, and the fight was set. I find it curious that Arum chose to fight Mosley at this point, Shane had very little creditability with Boxing fans due to being win-less in his previous two fights, yet somehow Arum justified it and made the match-up.


    As expected, Pacquaio won. He dominated Mosley even knocking down the iron chinned California native. Yet something was different, Pacquaio seemed to lack a killer instinct, only fighting with real aggression when referee Kenny Bayless falsely awarded Mosley a knock-down of Pacquaio.
    Pacquaio would later claim that leg cramps had stopped him from engaging as he would of liked.
    Mosley played a role himself, fighting an uncharacteristically defensive fight, then again as I mentioned, this was an older Mosley to the one that was turned away years ago.


    Pacquaio then signed to fight old foe Juan Manuel Marquez four years after their second brilliant match-up. Marquez was now Thirty Seven and although still a top fighter, not seen as a major threat to the improved Manny Pacquaio. Marquez signed with Bob Arum and Top Rank and the fight was set, we would finally have a clear victor out of the two.


    Marquez, fighting at a weight of 144lbs as opposed to his usual 135lbs, shocked the world. He showed just as he had done twice previously that he was every bit as good as Manny Pacquaio if not better. Boxing off of the back foot, Marquez countered Pacquaio's aggression with hard pin-point shots all night. Pacquaio did win rounds, but not many in my opinion, Marquez had him figured.
    After the fight Pacquaio looked dejected, he knew he had lost. Then came the aftershock, the judges awarded Pacquaio a majority decision. Pacquaio could not hide his delight, yet the Boxing world was in uproar, Marquez had in many peoples eyes, been robbed.


    Pacquaio's career will see him places in many ATG lists, yet there are holes; circumstances that suggest very careful matchmaking and a master-class in promoting by Bob Arum, since the Oscar De La Hoya victory, Pacquaio has become an icon of Boxing, and I would suggest that Boxing has done its best to protect one of its most prized possessions.


    Is Pacquaio a Phenomena, or a Phantom? I'd suggest somewhere in the middle, a Phenomena who has been carefully guided, so he may shine brightest.


    Written by SJS19
     
  3. Boxing Fanatic

    Boxing Fanatic Loyal Member banned

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    he was a tremendous fighter in the lower weights until he started getting hyped up and thrown into the politic world, he shined away from serious challenges. what a shame
     
  4. SJS19

    SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Exactly, his lower weight career makes him great, since the Oscar fight he's been extremely well manouvered.
     
  5. JohnAnthony

    JohnAnthony Boxing Junkie banned

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    Hatton and Cotto were great wins period. and 2 of the best of his career.

    they happened ater delahoya
     
  6. JohnAnthony

    JohnAnthony Boxing Junkie banned

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    Also De La Hoya never struggled to make weight.

    He got down to fighting weight about a week before the fight.

    The problem was more, that became his walking around weight 145. He let himself get too thin.

    But he definetly didn't have a problem making weight.
     
  7. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    He fell off awhile after Hatton and Cotto(e). Clottey fight was okay. margarito(e) and Mosley fights were disgraceful.

    He got back on track for a moment with the Juan fight even though he clearly waited to age Juan out.

    His upcoming fight with Bradley is better than his Clottey, margarito(e), and Mosley fights imo.
     
  8. SJS19

    SJS19 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't see how anyone can justify him fightly Mosley.
     
  9. igor_otsky

    igor_otsky Undefeated Full Member

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    they should have fought at 140. Pac's now so lazy enough to drain his body for a little pound or so. who cares, he's the main man.

    either so, you sir are correct. this fight (should be) better than clottey and mosley. But once Bradley tastes pac's power, Bradley might go into full retreat like the other two. We may never know.

    *The Margarito fight is a good fight, but the title on the line ruined it.
     
  10. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Loyal Member Full Member

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    Didn't read. But it's absolute bollocks to suggest that only in the lower weights was he great. During 2009/10, the man was walking on water. Hatton, Cotto and Margarito were sensational wins. The latter is only shitted on because of Margarito's handwrap scandal. The fight and the win itself was incredible.

    2011 was a bump in the road, but providing he re-discovers his form and knocks up a decent win against Bradley, the poor showings against Mosley and JMM won't effect his legacy at the higher weights that much.
     
  11. sam_sunders

    sam_sunders science Full Member

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    +1 - absolutely.
     
  12. timeout

    timeout Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Decent read. Now do one for Floyd....

    That one will loook bad.:think:rofl:lol::patsch
     
  13. BoxFan53

    BoxFan53 Member Full Member

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    Who can match Pacquiao's resume? The fights against, DelaHoya, Cotto and Margarito he was considered over his head prior to the fights. Cotto and Margarito were touted as monsters at the time. Clottey was considered a serious threat. Shying away from a fighter has not be in Pac's makeup, with the exception of admitting fighting a Jr, Mid maxed out his climb in weight divisions. Most top fighter's won't go up more than one division and at most two and that is generally not facing the elite of the dvision as Pac has done. The Pac's biggest challenge is Bob Arum.
     
  14. timeout

    timeout Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I will start you off

    Ortiz 2011= Solid win for floyd although he took a mental midget ex 140lb to do battle with. A man that was previously made to quit like a ***** by Maidana. Floyd showed great skill in landing a sucker punch that ended the fight.


    Shane 2010 = Floyd took on his nemesis Shane in 2010 who was 39years old with only one good win vs a mentally disabled fighter Margarito that came in confused into that fight having been discovered as cheating. He then proceeded to be placed on ***** street in 2nd rd from a single right hand. Second one nearly ended it. By the end of that rd Shane was blowing hard and was gassed. Mayweather proceeded to dominate via a 12RD decision a papa Shane who he couldnt even wobble despite 50 clean landed right hands.

    Marqueer 2009 = Mayweather back after finding his urge. The division was too hot for may in 2008-9 with Cotto and Margarito.
    He comes back with vengance and takes on a 130lb at a catchweight of 144lb. Coming in on the scales at 146lb. Marqueer drinks alot of pee.
    He dominates the counterpuncher marqueer, via UD 12rd. Outweighting the smaller fighter by some 10lb pounds. Solid win but put most of MGM Grand to sleep.
     
  15. boxing_RN

    boxing_RN Guest

    It's funny to read **** like this. Hatton was a good win, but....Cotto.was a good win, but....

    STFU with your hating ass. Those guys were supposed to break Pac's ribs with one clean shot, instead they got destroyed. Enough with the revisionist bull****, take a great win for what it is. The Mosley fight was a disgrace IMO, but that was the same Mosley Mayweather fought, and that was Mayweather's best win :lol And yes I thought Pac lost to Marquez, but Marquez is his anti-matter.