Manny Pacquiao: Has he really moved up and fought the best as fans say?

igor_otsky · Nov 4, 2009

Sweet Pea Pacquiao said: ↑

Time to get owned. From your statements it's clear you didn't watch boxing at the time, or if you did, only watched Roy Jones fight subpar competition at that stage in his career when after moving up to 175 to fight Griffin and Hill got too comfortable taking HBO's money and fighting guys with great records but no real substance. Oh, and so you can go draw a timeline, that's 1998-2003 (until he fought Ruiz at heavy, a true challenge). I'll estimate you were about 11-12 years old at the time. Go get a crayon.

To show you a parallel and how time works, Pacquiao was 19 years old when he fought at 112 in 1998, the same year Jones fought Virgil Hill in what should've been the prime of Roy's career. He defeated Sasakul, who the LINEAR champion and held a win over Yuri Arbachakov, who was arguably the #1 or #2 flyweight in the world based on Ring Magazine. For you to imply that Sasakul was a bum says it all. At flyweight he fought the best available.

Then three years later in JUNE 2001 he moved up to 122 and in his first fight in America, destroyed IBF champ Lehlo Ledwaba, who had reached a peak of #6 at one point in USA Today's Super Six P4P list (Dan Rafael's old newspaper before he moved on to ESPN) and was consensus Top 15.

Here's where you get exposed like the idiot you are. You say Vazquez was rated higher than Ledwaba so Pac avoided him.

BUT at the time Pac KO'd him, LL had defended his belt FIVE TIMES, and VAZQUEZ hadn't even fought for a world title yet!!! And yet you argue he was rated higher than Ledwaba? Israel is a hell of a fighter and person, but at the time he was an unknown...and get this...PACQUIAO'S SPARMATE FOR LEDWABA. How do I know this? Because I SAW THEM SPAR AT THE WILD CARD DURING THAT TIME!!! :rofl

I'm not done with you yet. You bring up Ayala, which seems on the surface to be a valid argument, but again, you probably weren't really watching boxing at the time, so it's ok. Ayala had fought at 118 and a catchweight ABOVE 122 when he fought Tapia twice. Talks had begun with Pacquiao's handler, Murad Muhammad in 2001, but instead of fighting Manny immediately after his first fight with Bones Adams, which was proposed, Ayala CHOSE to give Adams a rematch instead because he had only won by SD.

Then by the time Ayala was done, did he pursue the Pac fight? NO, he moved up to fight Erik Morales instead for more money and the WBC featherweight title, which again, if you ever followed boxing, would understand that Pac was still an unknown compared to Morales who had a huge following and was P4P by then.

Meanwhile, Manny stayed at 122 and tried to unify with Agapito Sanchez's WBO belt, arguably the #2 super bantam at the time. So fighting Ledwaba and Sanchez constituted fighting the best available. Larios was the other option and there is one fighter I can say no serious talks ever had been made. But they ended up fighting anyway albeit later.

Then for you to say he didn't fight the best at 126 or 130 because they were past prime, you're a moron. Barrera was the champ by virtue of beating Hamed, and he lost. He was the BEST FEATHERWEIGHT in the world at the time. Oh yeah, Barrera won 2 belts at 130 AFTER getting destroyed by Pac, so there goes your "washed up" argument. And unlike RJJ never fighting Daruisz Michalczewski, the only challenge left at 175 aside from Tarver, Pac fought Marquez and even gave him a second chance at 130. More than I can say for Roy. Then throw in HOF Morales, whom he split the first 2 with and fought the third (the third is the only fight I feel he was truly shot) because Morales had shown him the respect to give Manny a rematch after the first fight. He didn't fight the best at 126-130? STFU.

I don't think anyone on this board would argue that he fought the best at 135. I sure don't. But if you're gonna sit here and tell me he was unjustified in fighting Oscar De La Hoya for the biggest payday of his career while still having the burden of moving up TWELVE POUNDS and TWO WEIGHT CLASSES.

140 you at least acknowledged Pac fighting the best, but you only did that because you wanted to look half-******ed, and not expose the fully empty cavity you call a skull.

You won't give credit for 147 unless he beats Cotto, or whatever your nonsensical argument is.

Oh, and for the record, Cotto will be the 12th World Champ Pac has fought (he has beaten 10 so far).

Wow, that was easy. Now go formulate another stupid angle to attack Pacquiao's resume, because this one is officially dead. :hi:
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Time for the Pac haters to read this stuff.. Recommended 100%

Sweet Pea Pacquiao · Nov 4, 2009

Bump

blur · Nov 4, 2009

by the way,,,where is the thread starter?:huh

Silvermags · Nov 4, 2009

blur said: ↑

by the way,,,where is the thread starter?:huh
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EATING his crow ahead of time

coupdegrace · Nov 4, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

I took a look at Manny's March through the weight classes and every pound for pound or considered the best have their accomplishments and resume under scrutiny.
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112-Too young and green nowhere near his prime yet

122-This division was stacked with Talent....Paulie Ayala was the man and Ring champion, Bones Adams was still a top contender, Israel Vazquez and Oscar Larios had a great series and were longtime titlist at the weight. Pac-Man has wins over Lehlo Ledwaba a good fighter and titlist and a shot former bantamweight titlist Jorge Julio.......
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126-
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...Barrera underestimated him was past prime but got annihilated...Fought a draw with Marquez..fought average Battery....
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130-Fought a three fight series with all-time great Erik Morales...defeated a far past prime Barrera in a rematch that meant nothing IMO...It should be noted that Morales defeated him the first time around and had already been on the slide and had alot of wars...
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135-Fought David Diaz, a fighter who IMO lost to a well far gone Morales and got a gift, and was the least threatening fighterwith a belt here. This weight had Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz, Joel Casamayor, even Julio Diaz would have been better....
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:verysad

pugilistspecialist · Nov 4, 2009

ybfake said: ↑

You are %100 correct. But you will never get a ******* to understand that while good his resume is overrated big time. I have seen this scenario time and time again. One fighter is seen as being on a hot streak because he looks great do to perfect match making. The other fighter is seen to be on the slide because he has had tough fights with the elite of his division. But when the two meet its a one sided fight in favor of the guy who has been fighting the best. Judah said it right yesterday on talk radio. "Cotto gonna give Pac something he ain't never seen before".
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Exactly what they have to realize is, although his resume is very good it aint the best, they overinflate Pac-Man and he is one of my favorite fighters......one guy even said He is the fighter of the decade:huh When guys like Roy Jones, Hopkins, Shane Mosley, and Mayweather were p4p the best and have comparable resumes.

pugilistspecialist · Nov 4, 2009

Silvermags said: ↑

EATING his crow ahead of time
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college, and I have a job,spending time with my kid:-(.....Do you have a life:-(

pugilistspecialist · Nov 4, 2009

PanchoVilla said: ↑

excellent points, very nice read m8.
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he said so much but said so little....case and point he has a great resume, but he didnt fight the best in every weight class love it hate it but he didnt...There aint nothing a 30 page essay can change about that. His best wins are over past prime greats, he never defeated a prime great or good fighter and until he does I cant say he is the best fighter in the world, the best fighter of the decade, let alone have the best resume in boxing case closed.:hi:

bladerunner · Nov 4, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

he said so much but said so little....case and point he has a great resume, but he didnt fight the best in every weight class love it hate it but he didnt...There aint nothing a 30 page essay can change about that. His best wins are over past prime greats, he never defeated a prime great or good fighter and until he does I cant say he is the best fighter in the world, the best fighter of the decade, let alone have the best resume in boxing case closed.:hi:
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You look more ******ed with each post you make.

retriever · Nov 4, 2009

Sweet Pea Pacquiao said: ↑

Time to get owned. From your statements it's clear you didn't watch boxing at the time, or if you did, only watched Roy Jones fight subpar competition at that stage in his career when after moving up to 175 to fight Griffin and Hill got too comfortable taking HBO's money and fighting guys with great records but no real substance. Oh, and so you can go draw a timeline, that's 1998-2003 (until he fought Ruiz at heavy, a true challenge). I'll estimate you were about 11-12 years old at the time. Go get a crayon.

To show you a parallel and how time works, Pacquiao was 19 years old when he fought at 112 in 1998, the same year Jones fought Virgil Hill in what should've been the prime of Roy's career. He defeated Sasakul, who the LINEAR champion and held a win over Yuri Arbachakov, who was arguably the #1 or #2 flyweight in the world based on Ring Magazine. For you to imply that Sasakul was a bum says it all. At flyweight he fought the best available.

Then three years later in JUNE 2001 he moved up to 122 and in his first fight in America, destroyed IBF champ Lehlo Ledwaba, who had reached a peak of #6 at one point in USA Today's Super Six P4P list (Dan Rafael's old newspaper before he moved on to ESPN) and was consensus Top 15.

Here's where you get exposed like the idiot you are. You say Vazquez was rated higher than Ledwaba so Pac avoided him.

BUT at the time Pac KO'd him, LL had defended his belt FIVE TIMES, and VAZQUEZ hadn't even fought for a world title yet!!! And yet you argue he was rated higher than Ledwaba? Israel is a hell of a fighter and person, but at the time he was an unknown...and get this...PACQUIAO'S SPARMATE FOR LEDWABA. How do I know this? Because I SAW THEM SPAR AT THE WILD CARD DURING THAT TIME!!! :rofl

I'm not done with you yet. You bring up Ayala, which seems on the surface to be a valid argument, but again, you probably weren't really watching boxing at the time, so it's ok. Ayala had fought at 118 and a catchweight ABOVE 122 when he fought Tapia twice. Talks had begun with Pacquiao's handler, Murad Muhammad in 2001, but instead of fighting Manny immediately after his first fight with Bones Adams, which was proposed, Ayala CHOSE to give Adams a rematch instead because he had only won by SD.

Then by the time Ayala was done, did he pursue the Pac fight? NO, he moved up to fight Erik Morales instead for more money and the WBC featherweight title, which again, if you ever followed boxing, would understand that Pac was still an unknown compared to Morales who had a huge following and was P4P by then.

Meanwhile, Manny stayed at 122 and tried to unify with Agapito Sanchez's WBO belt, arguably the #2 super bantam at the time. So fighting Ledwaba and Sanchez constituted fighting the best available. Larios was the other option and there is one fighter I can say no serious talks ever had been made. But they ended up fighting anyway albeit later.

Then for you to say he didn't fight the best at 126 or 130 because they were past prime, you're a moron. Barrera was the champ by virtue of beating Hamed, and he lost. He was the BEST FEATHERWEIGHT in the world at the time. Oh yeah, Barrera won 2 belts at 130 AFTER getting destroyed by Pac, so there goes your "washed up" argument. And unlike RJJ never fighting Daruisz Michalczewski, the only challenge left at 175 aside from Tarver, Pac fought Marquez and even gave him a second chance at 130. More than I can say for Roy. Then throw in HOF Morales, whom he split the first 2 with and fought the third (the third is the only fight I feel he was truly shot) because Morales had shown him the respect to give Manny a rematch after the first fight. He didn't fight the best at 126-130? STFU.

I don't think anyone on this board would argue that he fought the best at 135. I sure don't. But if you're gonna sit here and tell me he was unjustified in fighting Oscar De La Hoya for the biggest payday of his career while still having the burden of moving up TWELVE POUNDS and TWO WEIGHT CLASSES.

140 you at least acknowledged Pac fighting the best, but you only did that because you wanted to look half-******ed, and not expose the fully empty cavity you call a skull.

You won't give credit for 147 unless he beats Cotto, or whatever your nonsensical argument is.

Oh, and for the record, Cotto will be the 12th World Champ Pac has fought (he has beaten 10 so far).

Wow, that was easy. Now go formulate another stupid angle to attack Pacquiao's resume, because this one is officially dead. :hi:
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:good:good

Silvermags · Nov 4, 2009

bladerunner said: ↑

You look more ******ed with each post you make.
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T/S getting owned is getting to be a traditon :rofl

Silvermags · Nov 4, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

college, and I have a job,spending time with my kid:-(.....Do you have a life:-(
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:|:|:| time again for you!

I suggest you continue writing your stupid posts coz you enjoy getting owned by pac fans :rofl

bladerunner · Nov 4, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

college, and I have a job,spending time with my kid:-(.....Do you have a life:-(
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Then stick with those things cause you dont know **** about boxing.

pugilistspecialist · Nov 4, 2009

Silvermags said: ↑

:|:|:| time again for you!

I suggest you continue writing your stupid posts coz you enjoy getting owned by pac fans :rofl
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CORRECTION PAC-MAN Dickriders:smoke

pugilistspecialist · Nov 4, 2009

bladerunner said: ↑

Then stick with those things cause you dont know **** about boxing.
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Because I dont agree with you, sorry dude you can have Pac-Mans Jock, keep riding it Cowboy:hi:

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Manny Pacquiao: Has he really moved up and fought the best as fans say?

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Manny Pacquiao: Has he really moved up and fought the best as fans say?

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