Manny Pacquiao, the Mexican Greats, & the Future Viewed Objectively-Long Read, Beware

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by acb, Mar 17, 2008.


  1. acb

    acb De Camaguey... Gavilan Full Member

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    I feel comfortable evaluating the career of Pac in retrospect in the past few years up to 130lbs, as he will be moving to 135lbs in the near future. Today I was thinking of his careeer while he has been fighting the Mexican greats and some of my favorite fighters.

    Barrera: My favorite of the three, and by a mile. My thinking on this has changed over time. I know full well that Barrera was not a prime fighter, and at the same time he wasn't too far past it either. But irregardless, Pac would always give Barrera trouble. I could see Barrera boxing the perfect fight to win maybe one of four fights against Pac, yet I see Pac's style catching up to him in the other three bouts.

    Marquez: Pac's fights against Marquez, and I think this would apply even with a third fight, prove more to me more than anything that these two may never be able to seperate themselves to the satisfaction of the boxing public. Marquez layed the initial blueprint to beat Manny, by absorbing Manny's forward movement with a slight step backward and head movement, followed by counterpunching. Yet, he has not been able to rally enough momentum to sway the judges in their two fights, and I doubt he could do so in a 3rd.

    Morales: This brings me to Morales, the man who, in his prime, is the perfect foil for Pac IMO. Although Morales is not quite the tactician that Marquez is, he is able to employ enough of his defensive gameplan. And, he is able to do something very important that Marquez (for either reasons of age, style, or chin) doesn't do- he is able to to absorb the attack of Pac, and once it is dissapated, to take the momentum and back Pac up on a consistant basis. In a fight in which the judges perspective comes into play, this is an important element. There is no juncture of a Pac fight in which he looks as vulnerable as when he moves backward. This, to me, was the seminole element that made his win over Pac decisive. And a prime Morales could do this on a routine basis to Pac, thats my belief.

    The Three Mexicans in a Nutshell:
    You have to give the Pacman the full credit. He came, he saw, he conquered. You can only beat the man in front of you and this he did. His fights have been great for boxing, they are always exciting, he is always humble- he is a credit to the sport. He has diversified his game, displayed time and time again that he has one of the best chins in the game, and has fought everyone.

    The Future: Pac is having a difficult time making 130lbs, that much is obvious. In his move to 135lbs, his style of fighting will be more difficult to impose on his opponents. His power will diminish, but his chin will hold up I believe. Pac has, realisticaly because of his style and his ring worn state, two years left in the sport. He will probably take a decision over Diaz, yet there will be telltale signs of a fighter moving up too far in weight on display in the fight. Then, he will take on J. Diaz or Cambell, and I expect him to lose. These two can take his power, impose their size, and back him up. I don't see him being stopped, but I do see him being beat up. I suspect he will then end his career against his old foe Marquez, or have Guzman move up to 135lbs to chase money and a big fight.
     
  2. johnco

    johnco Well-Known Member Full Member

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  3. theunderdog

    theunderdog Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    i agree that pac only has two good years left. i really hope he will know when to call it quits. i don'tw want to see him like the other old fighters who are trying to hold on as hard as they can to their former glory.
     
  4. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

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    wow excellent post..this is what people in here need...get some perspective
     
  5. knockout

    knockout Make my day Full Member

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    Really good post but i would have to disagree about pac losing power at 135 imo i dont thing so bacause he wouldnt have to drain himself too much and cut so much muscle,i think he will still have some pop if not a little more.
     
  6. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    good post i agree with everything except that Morales could push Pacquiao back routinely and beat him more often than not, and that Pacquiao would lose handily to either Juan Diaz or Nate Campbell.
     
  7. acb

    acb De Camaguey... Gavilan Full Member

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    Well he will definetly have pop, I didn't suggest he wouldn't.

    As fighters move up in weight, they lose power. Pac isn't as powerful at 130lbs as he was at 122lbs, and that trend should be consistant as he moves to the higher weights.
     
  8. knockout

    knockout Make my day Full Member

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  9. Guido

    Guido ESB Addict Full Member

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    All from a guy who started his championship reign at 112lbs. Pacquiao's a true boxing phenom, who will go down as one of the best Asian fighters of all time - especially if he goes up to lightweight and grabs a belt, any belt. He loves what he does, and is a true fighter to boot.
     
  10. digiram

    digiram Active Member Full Member

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    Great post, and as a Pac fan, I def. am worried about his move up to 135. For a fighter like him, it's a significant move. I agree on your post about the mexican fighters that he fought as well. Of the 3 mexican greats, Barrera is my fav as well. Followed by Morales and JMM. I like all 3 though. How can anyone not like these skillfull warriors that left it all in the ring in each match. It's too bad we didn't see JMM vs. MAB and EM though. I would love to see how he stacked up against those guys.
     
  11. jupzrooni

    jupzrooni Tyler Durden Full Member

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    jmm and mab already fought and jmm won.

    great read acb
     
  12. Boom_Boom

    Boom_Boom R.I.P Boxing 6/9/12 Full Member

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    Good post

    Im not putting any emphasis on Pac's power at 135 though, sure he'll knock a guy down or 2, but the transition into this weight class especially now that he will have to wear 10oz gloves instead of 8oz. Pac will need to rely on his speed and high workrate to be a success in the division.
     
  13. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Excellent post.

    I have always felt that Pacquiao is a bit past his prime already, and is starting to dwindle down. Thus the reason I wouldn't accept JMM being old as a valid excuse for any type of defeat, close or not. JMM is older by age, but Pacquiao is old in ring age now, due to his fighting style and wars with the Morales and JMM.

    We also share the same perspective on MAB when he fought Pacquiao the first time. He was not prime, but was still one of the best fighters in the world. And regardless, if they had met at 122 in MAB's prime, Pacquiao would most likely have beaten him. In fact, I think he would have beaten him worse because MAB altered his style when he realized he couldn't maintain it much longer. It's part of how he defeated the monstrous punching Hamed, who didn't have Pacquiao's speed, but was too hard a puncher to brawl with.

    Morales was always going to be problematic for Pacquiao (and really for anyone). He is the chameleon of the group. He is both MAB and Marquez, depending on how you approach him. In his prime, he most likely beats Pacquiao more often than not. I still think he took 2 of 3 from Barrera, but that is another argument we have all had dozens of times.
     
  14. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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  15. acb

    acb De Camaguey... Gavilan Full Member

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    Out of curiosity, when did you first see Pac slipping? I didn't get the opportunity to see some of the latest fights so I haven't really been able to make an evaluation. But it was clear to me that between the third Morales contest and the Pac that fought Marquez last Saturday, something was different.