Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez 3: A Retired Judge's Take

i have 117-113 Marquez

 

:bbb:bbb:bbb


I was just thinkiing, boxing has always been a sport where its inner circle protected themselves.

I'm sure its must have happened before in the past, but I cant think of a circumstance where a current or former judge criticized another judge to the extent Giampa is doing here.

The bafoon and tool that is HBO judge Harold Lederman criticized the judges in the Williams-Lara fight......but he actually had the audacity to not blame the judges, but blame those that appointed them.
He said those judges were "inexperienced.".....kind of a slap in the face to a boxing fans knowleadge of the corruption that exist in his judging craft.

.....in other words, Lederman was making a point and defending that the Williams-Lara decision was'nt a corrupt one. According to him the judges were just imcompetent.:nut
.....of course most of us boxing fans know better.:deal





Which there were more current and former judges like Giampa that voiced their opinion when they've witnessed a farce of a decision. Boxing however goes to great lenghths to stop current and former judges from speaking out on whats wrong with the sport.:?

 

After that Chavez fight, Meldrick Taylor spent nearly a week at the hospital recovering from internal injuries.

Doctors at that hospital voiced that Taylor's condition and the extent of his injuries were some of the worst they've even seen of a boxer that walked into their hospital still concious.

The beatdown that Julio Cesar Chavez bestowed upon Meldrick Taylor is what is called "effective aggression."dealyep

 

end of thread....

 

Umm dunno why this is not more quoted. Unfortunately this =

/thread

 

divac, you have chavez winning going into the 12th round against taylor? :yikes

i'm not actually that surprised when you have marquez winning all the 3 fights against pacquiao 10 rounds to 2.

 

Co-sign 100%, I had it 8-2 going into the round 11, with Marquez clearly winning round 11, anybody who says this fight is anything less than 7-5 for Marquez is obviously biased, I had it 9-3 for Marquez

 

:scaredas:

 

Okay, I understand the point you are making. I wont dispute that Pacs punches where inferior to some of the shots Marquez was landing. But we are meddling with gray shades here, because boxers win fights with arm punches like that all the time.

To be honest, I only scored the first four rounds in slow mo, and the rest in real time. So it is hard for me to say for sure how many or few of Marquez heavy looking combos that where effective during the remaining rounds, and I really dont have the time for a full slow mo rewatch. But thanks for explaining.

 

Give it up Pac won a close fight. Nothing to see here, move along!

 

haha

The irony

 

I had 115-114 Pac btw, but could of easily been 115-114 Marquez, A draw, or a victory for either fighters of a points margin of upto 3.

It was a close fight, anybody who says Marquez won is obviously being biased. A lot of Marquez fans seem to agree there were lots of close rounds and cannot agree amoungst themselves which rounds should go to which fighter. Therefore I cannot understand why it seems beyond the realms of possibility for them that the judges awarded more of the close rounds to Pac. I guess that they were just hoping that perhaps Marquez gets extra points for trying hard or doing better than expected lol!!

 

You make the ASSUMPTION that when he says "when the punches are even" he is talking about the number of punches. That invalidates your entire argument because he could have just as easily (and probably was) been talking about the EFFECT of the punches being even. Which is how I interpreted it.

 

Pacquiao vs Marquez 3, a week later and another look

Paul Magno | Nov 21, 2011 | Comments 6


by Charles R. Horgan

I will admit that when I first watched Juan Manuel Marquez vs Manny Pacquiao 3, I was pretty drunk and in a restaurant filled with screaming fight fans. Such a place is great for meeting fellow boxing nuts, but horrible for objective scoring. So today, thanks to a bizarre problem with the cable box at work, I got to watch the entire fight in HD with no sound whatsoever.

Hardcore boxing nuts and those of you on our own BTBC fan forum, just stop reading and send me your hate mail now, because I scored it a draw, with a possible sway of 1 point to Manny Pacquiao if I scored round 10 for him instead of for Marquez. Round 10 was the only round, among many incredibly close rounds, that I thought could be scored a draw and wouldn’t feel like a lazy judge.

First off, this was an incredible fight. It seems like it’s been a long time since either fighter has really been challenged (at least if you ignore Mayweather vs. Marquez), and this was easily the most technical, action packed fight I’ve seen all year. I loved it. If Floyd fell off the planet and Marquez and Pacquiao just fought each other twice a year for the next 3 years, well that would be fine, probably. Each fight has been thrilling and close and people can’t shut up about them.

The Boxing Tribune scored the fight 115-113 in favor of Marquez. I can see that, maybe. Some people said 116-112 for Marquez? I don’t see it. I also don’t see the same difference for Pacquiao. This fight was that close.

I was incredibly relieved when I listened to the Body Blow post-fight podcast by D. Andrew when he said that he scored the fight similarly. Without the ability to watch a replay for an entire week, I was stuck looking at our message boards where people were saying that Marquez was robbed and won the fight by 2 or more rounds.

Well that’s crazy.

Marquez looked great. Juan Manuel Marquez is an amazing fighter and an absolutely great Mexican fighter. Marquez was never hurt, he never ran away and he landed some excellent bombs.

But Marquez did not win this fight. The biggest argument I seem to be seeing is that Pacquiao cannot be given the benefit of the doubt for his aggression if it is not effective. I absolutely agree with this. Many of us went into this fight thinking of Marquez vs. Mayweather, and of Pacquiao’s last few fights and we thought that Marquez would get flattened in a whirlwind of punches. This didn’t happen, Marquez boxed smart and he wasn’t overwhelmed. In fact, Marquez stayed in range and kept Pacquiao from making any sustained attacks. The problem is, during these attacks, Pacquiao did land some good shots, even if Marquez kept him off balance and fired back.

Don’t be fooled by compubox. Ever. As stated in the Bodyblow podcast “the stats may not tell the full truth, but they do tell a story” but in my scoring of the replay I threw compubox out. I avoided watching anything else on the screen. I’ve seen the numbers, and I’ll be hard pressed to find 15 real scoring punches landed by either fighter in any round. With the sound off you get stuck relying on what you can see (when Tony Weeks isn’t in front of the camera, that is) and without the sound of smacking leather, what I saw was a lot of shots that landed on elbows, bounced off of gloves and landed just short. While I was impressed on fight night with Marquez’s body attack, I found that lots of what I felt were scoring blows then seemed to land on the elbows now. Furthermore, I saw that Pacquiao frequently landed a straight left to the body, something that I didn’t seem to notice the first time through. What began swaying me in Pacquiao’s favor during many of the rounds was that even though Pacquiao’s aggression had been muted somewhat, he still found success with a fast straight left that he throws like a jab and some lead right hooks.

Marquez did land a lot of nice, clean shots throughout the fight. I’m in love with the extreme slow motion camera and Marquez can really make me clap with sheer joy when he comes out of a flurry with a picture perfect right hand. But to me, one or two eye-catching right hands don’t win the round if the other fighter is sneaking in his own power punches. I scored rounds 2 and 4 for Pacquiao because even though Marquez got the sweet replays, I saw Pacquiao sneak in his straight lefts through the gloves once every 45 seconds or so. In a fight this close, that can make the difference.

Rounds 1, 5 and 6 were the only rounds where I felt there was a clear winner. Round 1 was taken by Marquez because of a solid flurry to Pacquiao’s body and Pacquiao’s inability to land anything meaningful.

Round 5 was a clear Marquez round as Marquez stayed within range and landed on Pacquiao over and over with solid, quality shots even though Pacquiao wasn’t being dominated and landed some of his own.

Round 6 was almost the complete opposite of round 5 as Pacquiao landed the good blows while Marquez only found slight success although he remained competitive.

The only serious damage in the fight was done by an accidental clash of heads that busted Pacquiao’s eyebrow, but aside from that, both men were very good at neutralizing each other’s attacks. Those that say that Pacquiao looked below average forget that below average fighters get knocked out by Marquez. Below average Pacquiao from the first fight gets taught a boxing lesson by Marquez. The fact that Pacquiao didn’t need a knockdown (or three) to eke out a decision says something about his boxing ability, even if he didn’t get the catastrophic knockout or dominating win many experts predicted.

Marquez is awesome, and either he has Pacquiao just about figured out, or he gained some durability with his move up in weight. If we don’t have to wait 4 years for a rematch, Marquez may be able to take this decisively, especially if he mixes some more offense. Some people say that he was always fighting off of the back foot. I didn’t feel like this was true. Going into a Pacquiao fight, you know that Pacquiao is going to come forward. Marquez never retreated. He backed up just enough to keep himself within his most effective punching distance and he did so smartly. Marquez isn’t a runner and he had some wonderful short right hands in the exchanges that gave him rounds 8 and 9 on my card. I simply love to watch him fight.