Manny's / Armstrong's jump in weight: once and for all.

Think you may be gettin this wrong. The gain does not bash Armstrong at all. TS says that Armstrong and Pac's weight gain is comparable; therefore, Pac's gain does not necessarily mean that he's using PEDs. My point above was that their gain was not so comparable because TS math was off. Pac actually jumped 10 pounds higher than Armstrong did, as opposed to 3.

 

My post wasn't directly in response to yours, though I probably did misinterpret it a bit. It just seems that many people have been acting like the fact that Pacquiao has covered a greater poundage somehow puts him in Armstrong's class as a fighter. In reality it's more or less the opposite.

 

this guy is definitely on PEDS. the great chemist floyd sr. will tell you that.

 

Carpentier is another fighter whose career can sometimes get blown out of proportion due to the fact that he started off as a growing tot. He started boxing professionally at the age of 14 for Christ's sake. It's not as if he was a natural Flyweight that built his way up to Light Heavy. Same deal with Pacquiao to a lesser extent. Carpentier's accomplishments are a lot more overblown though, due to the mostly poor opposition he was winning them off. The majority of the time he fought an elite fighter, and sometimes less than elite, he lost. He had some good wins, don't get me wrong, but even his top rated ones (such as against the shop-worn Ted Kid Lewis) were when he himself held the substantial size advantage. Good fighter, but certainly no great.

 

I forgot to mention earlier when preoccupied with your little Walcott error, but this bit is bang on.:good

 

He based it on 113 to 144.

Pac = 113 lbs @ 18 years old
Armstrong = 120 @ 18 years old

 

i think people need to understand the difference between not taking a test and agreeing but to a certain point. dont make out pac never agreed to take tests because thats mis-information.

 

That's true, but Pac is an odd case as well. He went pro when he was 16, destitute and malnourished.

I'm not trying to make any of these arguments in defense of Pacquiao's greatness or any of these other fighters' greatness. Rather, just pointing out that it's not unprecedented for someone to have success and still be strong after this kind of weight gain, including in an era before steroids (or even modern bodybuilding techniques) existed.

Even without steroids, of course it's easier to put on weight and succeed now than it was years ago. Back then, nobody even knew what to do to properly put on weight. Lifting weights was something almost nobody did and it was pretty much frowned upon, and those who did it didn't know how to cycle it in a way to effectively grow muscle groups without performance suffering. Legal supplements that help people gain muscle mass didn't exist yet. Modern ideas of nutrition didn't exist yet.

 

Your the idiot!!! did duran ever walk down bigger opponents, did duran keep the same speed and power he posed at light weight NO .. I don't remember, Duran walking down
Infact duran started his career 118 not 107 and his very next fight was lt feather weight .. even so duran did not walk fighter like hagler down and KO them .