Mannys name belongs up there with Armstrong and the rest

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Nov 15, 2010.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Looking at what he did to Hatton, Oscar and Margarito at the higher weights, I can't agree.


    And I rank Marquez higher than Barrera.
     
  2. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    He still carried good power there but not the same power there. How many knockouts does he have at 147?
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Fewer, but that is in part due to the singificant drop-off he suffered at the weight. His most astonishing knockout on film is at 140, and his most astonishing combinational weavings are at 142lbs against Oscar (who was doomed, but that's still fact to my eye). There was a poised period where he was hitting with astonishing power and consistency of the lower weight classes before he dropped off and at that time he looked as menacing and devastating as he did at the lower weights.

    Pacquiao's weaker hand got that "Manilla Ice" hype for the first time in front of the first Morales fight but it never emerged. It did in time for the third Morales fight. Pacquiao had a total of four fights below 130 at what I would consider his absolute prime and six above 130 before he began to drop off. By my eye.

    But confirmed in some respects by what Roach has said.
     
  4. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good post. So do you think the knockouts stopped more because of weight or more to pac just simply getting older and declining and being past prime?
     
  5. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    The first time I thought the right hand had become a big time weapon was the valazquez fight. Pac landed a huge right hook and then quickly finished him the same round.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    To me, he began to slip mentally in the 12th round of the Margarito fight but that's pop psychology and worth about what you'd imagine. But yes, I think he started to slip - in commitment, killer instinct and physically sometime after this fight.
     
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Yes I would say equal. Over 36 rounds nothing separated them. One ko loss doesn't change that.

    Marquez also beat MAB but I rate JMM higher anyways.

    Pacman was probably at his best best as a LW and WW but didn't sta long enough to forge out a legacy. At WW he looked incredible against Cotto and Clottey. Since the Diaz fight he basically looked unbeatable and that was the only time in hi career that could be said.

    I'd probably say he was a top 5 SFW and despite maybe being more impressive at higher weights he never did enough to deserve ranking there. Armstrong is on a whole other planet I'm afraid.
     
  8. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    MAB was well past prime when he lost to Marquez.

    MAB beat peak Morales twice and Hamed. So IMO he clearly rates higher than Marquez.

    Morales IMO actually fared better H2H against Pacquiao than Marquez did.
     
  9. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    Pacquiao is so overrated at JWW and 147.

    At 147 and higher he has no knockouts.

    DLH was a raisin. May-pac was two geezers. And Hatton wasn't great.

    Cotto was pretty great though, but he only has 2 good performance at 140 and none at 147.
     
  10. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    The top 10 Pacquiao performances.

    1. Barrera I
    2. Ledwaba
    3. Marquez II
    4. Cotto
    5. Hatton
    6. Sasakul
    7. Julio
    8. Marquez I
    9. Morales II
    10. Margarito
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    So MAB was well past his prime but Morales was absolute peak? Ok.

    Morales did beat a prime pac clearly (not as close as some make out imo). But JMM arguably beat Pac 3 times on points himself and then sparked him.

    Beyond all that anyways om guessing we use different criteria to rank, I rank on H2H.
     
  12. tinman

    tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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    I rank on resume entirely as I believe it's the only thing that matters.

    You can have all the talent in the world but it's no good if you don't use it.
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    You can have all the resume in the world but it doesn't mean you'll win your next fight. Works both ways.

    But I do feel MAB is higher by your criteria.
     
  14. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    I can never understand why people like you offer your fanboyism, as a reasonable observation of what occurred?

    Hatton was down twice in the previous round, prior to the Pac winning stoppage.

    Marquez switched Paciow off like a cheap light bulb, against the run of the fight, with one shot.

    If ANYONE looked like being fukking KILLED it was the OVER RATED Fillipino IDIOT. His face hit the canvas before his LIMBS did.

    It was as if a soldier was sniped by the Taliban ffs. Marquez killed him ,but for the intervention of the medical staff.
     
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I hope I'm mistaken but this comes across as just a little bit .... err ... racist.