Manuel Ortiz.......The Best Bantamweight Of All Time?

I don't much about the division, but people seem to be agreed that either Jofre, Ortiz, or Olivares are the greatest Bantamweights of all time. I'd be interested in hearing what separates those guys from Canizales, who is criticized for never fighting a truly great fighter at Bantamweight.

 

The argument can definitely be made. My only concern was his lack of dedication which lead to his inconsistency. At his best he was easily among the top 3 in the division's history, though. His record surpasses pretty much all others at the weight. Had he a more consistent work ethic I'm not sure there'd be much of an argument.

 

They fought much better opposition, that's really all it comes down to.

 

#1 on my list.

#2 - Jofre
#3 - Olivares

 

Was there fighters Canizales for whatever reason didn't fight, or was the Bantamweight division void of any world class talent during his reign?

What fights of Ortiz would you recommend me to watch to see the man at his best?

 

Billy Mondeo. He was the greatest at this weight.

 

His third fight with Luis Castillo is available on Youtube. That's the best footage you'll access easily. Great display of in-fighting from both men. There's also his losing effort against Vic Toweel when the title was finally stripped from him.

Canizales's toughest matchup at the time probably would've been Raul "Jibaro" Perez. For whatever reason, this fight and a few others between the top ranking Bantamweights weren't made due to contractual obligations and the like. I don't know the full story myself to be honest, having only heard vague impressions. Maybe Mantequilla stops by and clears things up.

 

I've never actually watched him, but his record alone is a thing of beauty despite the inconsistencies. Constantly crossing swords with the likes of Pep, Dade, Salas, Goldberg, Toweel and others is bound to leave a bloke with the odd blemish on his record. His defeats tended to come in non-title bouts at a quick glance though, other than the Dade and Toweel losses. 23 title fights speaks for itself in that particular day and age.

 

Pea is right.It was just the usual alphabet **** getting in the way of things between the different champions.Most of them were making enough money defending split belts in front of home crowds as well.

Perez got a lot of hype early on, but quickly became an out of shape, partying drinker.I doubt he was all that concerned with unifying.

 

I have it

1. Jofre
2. Olivares
3. Ortiz

His record is very very impressive probably on par with Jofre nin terms of title defnces longevity (at Bantamweight). However my big problem is what i have seen of him is that he has great heart and a tremendous infighter but i just dont think he is as good as Olivares, Jofre and maybe even Rose on his best day.

Still a very impressive resume, with some good names and the title defences is it the most amount of Linear Bantamweight defences?

 

You could say the same of Benny Leonard in comparison to the more modern great LW's that we've seen much more of on film. You can't tell me he looked as good in the footage against Tendler as guys like Duran, Whitaker, Ortiz, etc.

 

No i dont think he looked as good as Duran or Whittaker. I havent seen alot of Ortiz so i dont want to comment. I think he is definitly up there in terms of skill though (Leonard), he really did look good IMO. But i do think Duran and Whittaker are 2 of the 'best' fighters taht ever lived.

'best' meaning in terms of skill and trying to beat them they would be the best. As in the best fighters not necessary the greatest.

But i stick by it i still think Ortiz is good he just dosent blow me away as Jofre or Olivares do. I actually think Ortiz looked very 'modern' on film.

However i was thinking about it and i think Ortiz could beat Olivares by outlasting him on the inside. What a fight taht would be though.

 

I've always thought that bantam was the toughest division to single out an "all time best" candidate in. While there are cases to be made for fighters like Jofre and Ortiz, among others, there are also valid arguments that can just as well be made against them.

I've never supported Olivares' claim to the #1 spot. I think he gets too much of a free pass for his losses to Herrera and his weaknesses in general.