Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Calroid · Sep 19, 2007

OLD FOGEY said:

In the United States, boxing became vastly stronger, in my judgement, in the late thirties with the Joe Louis era. The reason is obvious. Integration. Black talent had been cut off at the roots. Why even go into a sport where one got the nothing end of the purse, the best trainers looked the other way, and one was expected to lay down for top white fighters. Things weren't perfect after Joe Louis, but they were better, and there was a tremendous influx of black talent. The forties were certainly better for boxing in America than any previous decade had been.
It should be noted that there were also few other options for black athletes. Most major Amercican sports remained segregated until the late forties (baseball, gridiron football) or even the fifties (NBA).
Sugar Ray Robinson is perhaps the best example of the impact on boxing. Robinson's first love was baseball and baseball scouts who saw him play rated him a top prospect. Had he been born ten years later, Robinson would most likely have been a major league baseball player.

It is also fair to state that historical fluctuations can go the other way. In the United States, the white ethnic boxers so prominent in the first half of the century began to abandon the sport after about 1950 and perhaps a little earlier. This process can actually be traced by checking the Ring Magazine top tens. For example, between 1946 and 1955 there were 12 white American-born fighters rated among the top five heavyweight contenders. Between 1960 and 1979, there were only two, Quarry and Bobick.

If there was a cliche among American boxing "experts" in the sixties, it was that boxing was regressing, or even dying. Everyone harped on the theme that there just weren't as many good fighters as there used to be.
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Nice post. It makes a lot of sense.

cross_trainer · Jul 27, 2022

China_hand_Joe said: ↑

It is no different to what cross-trainer knowingly does now with an entire era.
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ETM · Jul 28, 2022

China_hand_Joe said: ↑

Despite the fact he fought in the 40s, an undoubtably weaker era (it would be practically impossible to match his numbers today against the better athletes).

Well here is something to think about and agree with:

We can name Sugar Ray Robinson the best, the greatest ever. We can overlook the fact he fought in the 40s. It wasn't his fault everyone else was so bad, it just was, but we overlook it...

Why can't we overlook the fact that Joe Calzaghe has few worthy elite challengers? It is almost exactly the same, both have built up terrific number against less than stella opponents. It is double standards if we overlook it in the case of Robinson, but are ultra critical about Calzaghe for it.

It wasn't Robinson's fault the opponents back then were unworthy. Just as it isn't Joe Calzaghe's fault he has no truly worthy challengers. We should overlook these unfortunalities in Joe's career, just as we do for Sugar Ray.

We should be able to place Calzaghe amongst the top ten ever, immune to critism of his resume, just as Robinson fans are can do. There is no difference when you compare their respective opponents head to head, arguably Joe with his 'zero' against solid modern opposition comes out on top.
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I need to pick up Laundry detergent tomorrow. I gotta wash my whites. I hate folding socks.

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Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Calroid Active Member Full Member

cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Calroid Active Member Full Member

cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member