March 4, 1968: Frazier stops Buster Mathis (who was about the size of Lennox Lewis)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Mar 5, 2018.


  1. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    And becomes the heavyweight king
     
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  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Lennox was a little taller, I don`t think Buster was quite as big as Lennox. He didnt have the punch of Lewis either who did? Had Buster Mathis been in top shape I think he would have weighed about 225-230lbs. Mathis did have good quickness though and footwork for a large man.He had some talent. Joe Frazier said that Buster just didnt have the fighting heart,
     
  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Heres the problem with this statement.

    A lot of people dismiss the giants of the past by calling them lanky string beans or lumbering fatsos. For the latter, they dismiss specimens like mathis, buddy baer, willard, etc by sayng theyd weigh a lot less if they were in shape.

    Main problem with that is:

    -a lot of them were in shape. They were trained to go 15 rounds and did so multiple times. Its a fight, not a beauty contest.

    -they were arguably in better shape than some of the so called giants today. Nowadays a guy has to fight for 12 instead of 15, they rarely fight outdoors and enjoy air conditioning, and they get away with lots of smothering and clinching when tired. Their punch output is usually much lower.

    -the same argument that some old school giants would be lighter if "in shape" applies to a lot of guys today. At 6'2, samuel peter and alexander povetkin have no business being over 240 lbs. Wladmir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis both weighed in the 220 pound range as adult professionals on multiple occasions. Lewis was also noticeably pudgy with flabs as he climbed higher north of 230, his legs were slower, and his workrate and stamina lower. It was even worse above 240 and he almost never used his legs to move, prefering to operate behind a jab, clinch, smother, and go for a decision win more often than not. Wladmir wasnt shy of using this strategy either and often stunk out the joint with excessive clinching and far less snappy explosive work rate or movement from his younger days.

    -...then of course theres the introduction of weights, hgh, steroids, rehydration, supplements, etc. To deny that these things had an impact on how big men were able to grow huge AND maintain cardio, functional strength, speed, etc when it was never done before is naive at best and dishonest at worst. Im not saying EVERYONE is juicing, but a lot are and definitely all of them are taking advantagr of everything available, legal or otherwise.
     
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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  5. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    You have a point but do you think that it applies to Buster Mathis in this case? He wasn`t known for his dedication or discipline. The guy had rolls of fat on him. I agree it`s not a bodybuilding contest but Lennox Lewis was still pretty solid at 240lbs.
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    My point is who cares? Mathis nearly went 15 with a prime JOE FRAZIER. That takes insane athleticism. He was also an olympic athlete and splendid amateur boxer.

    Strength is also deceptive. A guy can look like chubby football linemam but have enormous functional physical strength. Lennox fit this mold as he was superbly strong even at 240+.

    Lennox was usully flabby at that weight. If you follow his career it was obvious he got comfortable using his brain and size/reach rather than being in tip top shape and going for broke. Definitely influence from emmanuel stewart+ the lifestyle he gained making millions and eating like a king.

    My point in all this is we need to stop having double standards in regards to the big men/super heavies. Lennox and wlad were both 220 ad pros and were muscular and in great shape, they werent starving or skinny at all. Without weights, having to go 15 instead of 12, and being punished for excessive clinching i dubt theyd weigh much more than 230.

    Only guys i see weighing above 240 naturally without weights or juice are abnormal giants like simon, carnera, valuev, vitali, etc. Even joshua likely wouldnt weigh more than 235-240 in tip top shape.
     
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Buster Mathis easily punched much harder than Lewis, also.
     
  8. JC40

    JC40 Boxing fan since 1972 banned Full Member

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    Thats a wonderful post mate and one I am in complete agreement with. Muchos Gracias.
     
  9. JC40

    JC40 Boxing fan since 1972 banned Full Member

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    I sense some sarcasm hehehe.

    Mathis would need to use a lead pipe to hit as hard as Lewis.
     
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  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    What about Butterbean? Don`t forget Bean.
     
  11. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Very good post man. This reminded me how the soft bodied Jimmy Young handled the muscular Foreman Lyle and Norton. It's boxing conditioning not bodybuilding
     
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  12. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I guess someone who is interested in seeing a fighter get the most out of that athleticism and talent that he had. Maybe he would've done better? Maybe he could've won. His conditioning was an issue his entire career.
     
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    He was like riddick bowe. Very talented and athletic but couldnt put down the burgers.

    Some people are blessed with incredible talent and have a few moments where they shine and hint at how good they could have been but never quite reach 100%. Mathis just didnt have a true warrior's heart and you cant teach that.
     
  14. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1969-03-24 : Jerry Quarry 196 lbs beat Buster Mathis
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    by UD in round 12 of 12

    Photo #2

    "Underdog Jerry Quarry dropped Buster Mathis in the 2nd round and then went on to pound out a lopsided victory over the giant from Grand Rapids, Mich. in a 12 round heavyweight fight at MSG Monday night. Quarry, 196, went right after his 234 1/2 pound foe and smashed him repeatedly to the body and head. Quarry showed complete contempt for Mathis' punching power. He walked right in and dug searing hooks and solid rights to Buster's belly and ribs, although it was a long right to the jaw that dropped Buster in the 2nd round." -Associated Press
     
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  15. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    • Joe Frazier 19-0 (17 KOs) vs. Buster Mathis 23-0 (17 KOs)
    • The bout was the main event on a card that also included Emile Griffith vs. Nino Benvenuti III.
    • This was the first boxing card to be held at the third incarnation of Madison Square Garden.
    • A crowd of 18,096 produced a gate of $658,503, which was an indoor record at the time.
    • Several hundred picketers organized by black power groups protested outside the venue for the recently deposed Muhammad Ali. After Ali was arrested for refusing to be drafted into the U.S. Army in April 1967, he was stripped of the World Heavyweight Title and had his boxing license suspended.
    • Frazier's management declined an invitation to take part in the WBA's eight-man elimination tournament.
    • Frazier entered as a 2-1 betting favorite.
    • At 243½ pounds, Mathis was the heaviest opponent of Frazier's professional career.
    • Mathis, who weighed almost 300 pounds as an amateur, outpointed Frazier in the heavyweight final of the 1964 U.S. Olympic Trials. However, Mathis broke his right middle finger and had to withdraw from the Olympics. Frazier took his place and won the gold medal.
    • The bout was broadcast on closed circuit television in 70 cities.
    • Frazier earned $175,000, while Mathis made $75,000.
    • Frazier won recognition as World Heavyweight Champion by New York, Illinois, Maine, and Massachusetts.
    • Frazier flooring Mathis in the eleventh round was the only knockdown of the fight, but Frazier was down in the seventh round from a slip.
    Sources
     
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