Marciano and Frazier vs Max Schmeling

My goodness, did you just reevaluate your decision?

Escape this forum as fast as you can before you're ruined

 

Haha, I'm just here to learn and teach.

 

Lol it does happen every now and again lol. I do think Schmeling is comparable to Walcott/Charles and I rate all 3 of them in the 15-20 range at HW (I know you are higher on Walcott/Charles than Schmeling). You are a Marciano guy and I am a Frazier guy, and I expect both to beat Max. But a guy who can beat a young joe Louis needs to be taken serious by just about any HW. I think both stop him 5-10, but max will give them some trouble along the way

 

Frazier treats Max like he did Bob Foster. Brutally. Max never in the fight. Over within 5 rounds.

Max has a better chance at getting some momentum and some rounds in against Marciano, but still its a solid no over the long haul.

Marciano, takes over full control, if he wasn't already, in the mid rounds and dishes out a beating. Marciano stops Max mid-late. No decision here.

Remember Schmeling was slower-handed and slower on the trigger than Max Baer when they fought, and ended up taking a whipping.

A guy like that doesn't dent Marciano or for the love of God Frazier....

 

I like Max but these guys are all wrong for him, Frazier would grind him up and stop him late after eating some big punches. Rocky would have a tougher time but basically the same scenario.

 

Styles make fights and I think Marciano and Frazier have all the wrong styles for Max. Schmeling's worst nightmare is a swarmer who fights out of a crouch or a bob and weave and who keeps on top of him. (Dempsey is another nightmare--Tunney might have handled any version of Dempsey, but I think Schmeling would do much better with the boxer Tunney than with Dempsey). The crouch and bob and weave tends to negate a right cross.

Schmeling going the distance with Uzcudun three times and being unable to handle Baer doesn't bode well for handling Frazier or Marciano.

Schmeling was too good to dismiss, but I don't like his chances here.

 

It doesnrt matter if its the best Schmelling or not, Frazier and Marciano would takes turns beating on him and hit him all over . Max is to small to be taking on 2 guys with boxing gloves on . Its not competitive at all.

 

Schmeling dropped Johnny Risko a swarmer 4x and knocked him out when no one else could. He also totally slaughtered the aggressive swarmer Mickey Walker. He was unable to KO Uzcudon but who could outside of Louis? He still clearly defeated him 3x (the draw was bogus).
Marciano was an open fighter, who often missed, Schmeling would find the mark with his right often. Marciano would be in a fight. He was not difficult to hit and Max could hit. Marciano probably outworks him and grinds him out but peak Max, best Louis, Sharkey and several good fighters like Hamas, Uzcudon, Stribling, it’s no walk in the park.

 

I don't think I implied it would be a walk in the park. I said that I thought Marciano had the wrong style for Schmeling.

Risko--I have never seen a film of him, so it is hard to judge. He won only 56% of his fights. My guess is he was a swarmer, but obviously a slapper w/o much power. He was durable, so it was an impressive KO, but w/o film, I am somewhat in the dark about how he really fought.

Walker--Walker was not exactly a swarmer off the film. He was more of an all-rounder. He could box and move, had all the punches, and could also carry the fight to the other guy. But he was small and Schmeling could handle him in the clinches w/o too much trouble. The bigger Marciano would be another matter. Schmeling caught Walker with his right when Mickey was boxing him and standing off. When Walker was on the offense and swarming, he had his best moments and Max was less effective.

Uzcudun--does swarm and use the bob and weave in the 1929 fight, and it did rather effectively negate Schmeling's right on the film clips that are on you tube. I just re-watched it and didn't see Schmeling connecting with very many big rights. Max did effectively jab Uzcudun, who impressed me as a better defensive than offensive fighter with his cross armed style. What Uzcudun appears to lack is a good straight right to cross over the jab. Marciano had that.

None of these three men compare to Marciano in punching power.

I don't see Marciano as wide open and easy to hit as you do by any means. Not that he was a defensive genius, but he was able to block and duck punches. Baer, who was much bigger, was easy to hit. Galento was wide open. Marciano had some defensive skills which is why he was so much more successful.

*Uzcudun did drop Wills with a swinging overhand right on film. He didn't use that punch effectively against Schmeling in 1929. Boxrec mentions that his right arm might have been injured.

 

Marciano wins ko 12 .
Knock downs .Schmeling 2 /Marciano 2 .

Frazier wins ko 8 .
Knock downs .Schmeling 2
Frazier 3 .

 

Hey buddy, would have to agree with you on this! Alot of people seem to be underrating Schmeling on the right night he would be a problem for anybody in the heavyweight division. He had good solid fundamentals combined with a great chin and could knock a guy out with either hand. Makes for a dangerous fight anytime he steps in the ring!

 

I appreciate the in depth analysis and the fact you took the time to actually watch Schmeling vs Uzcudon. Good scrap.
I was just replying to the fact you said a swarmer is all wrong for Max, when I don’t necessarily agree with that assessment since he fought Uzcudon 3x, Risko, and Walker and he had very good results. Now none of that trio is in the league of Marciano or Frazier but at least Schmeling has some basis of success against imitation styles fighters.
A couple of side notes, Schmeling injured his hand in the 5th round against Uzcudon in their first fight.
Risko i’m Not sure their is film of him but apparently he was a swarmer with one good hand a left hook. I think his right was injured and he didn’t use it much in his career.
Also a side appreciation, Schmeling really was in fantastic shape. If you watch some of his fights - Uzcudon in the final round Schmeling runs across the ring to face him as fresh as if it were the first round. Also I The KO of Stribling in the final round he then lifts Stribling up and carries him to his stool. He does the same for Louis. Guy was some athlete.

 

I like your post and agree with you about Schmeling's stamina and quality.

No reason to argue as you easily could be right and I wrong as these fantasy fights are all guesswork.

On Uzcudun, I haven't seen film of the other two fights, but Uzcudun going the distance three times, twice at an advanced age, does point to Max having trouble setting up for his right against a guy who swarms him, in MHO.