Marciano deserves a lot of respect

I honestly don’t think he would see the final bell against Ali let alone Wlad, Lennox or Tyson.

 

It’s amazing just how overrated these old timers are. They were good in their day when there wasn’t half as much technical skills to boxing as there is to day, the athletes weren’t as fit and they didn’t have access to medication and supplements, also they had smaller gloves with less padding so their power was more effective that it would be on today’s boxing gloves. Stick Mariano in with even Dillian Whyte and he gets bullied and battered.

 

Whatever you think of Rocky Marciano, he should get respect for one thing.

All of his title fights, with the sole exception of the Cockell fight, were against the current Ring Magazine #1!

Cockell was ranked #2!

Could you all have forgotten, that we waited more than a decade, to see the two best heavyweights in the world face off?

Rocky Marciano was hosting a Fury Wilder II, twice a year in many cases!

 

Men like Archie Moore Ezzard Charles Walcott Louis and Lastarza were far more skilled then today’s top five. They just didn’t have access to steroids. If you watch Archie Moore and try to tell me Andy Ruiz is more skilled then he was I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Rocky would do well at SMW.

 

Agreed, but Archie would most likely be a LHW today along with Jersey Joe and Ezzard with no motivation for a shot at the HW crown.

 

Probably would yeah.

 

Don’t disagree with this. Plenty would train down. There are some I think like Rocky that would Jack up to 215-220 look like Tyson or Tua (could go down to smw too who knows but reading about him he would follow the money). Boxing training is different now from then but human genetics and style and reflexes and power have not changed. Imagine a Marciano on steroids? HGH? With access to modern weight training? You’d get a better version of Tua.

 

Moore, Charles, and Marciano were roughly the same height and weight. Marciano was just physically stronger and seemed to have more brute punching power, in addition to HW durability. Charles and Moore are master boxers and Marciano beat them without a reach, height, or even true weight advantage. P4P he is underrated, if only because his power and aggression is so effective against men of a comparable size.

Sure they were older, but look how Tyson failed against Holyfield. Nobody rates Holyfield pound for pound higher than Moore or Charles. I know people like to imagine Marciano was a HW bulldozing through tiny "blown up" Charles and Moore...but these men absolutely were the same size, and equally experienced in fighting in the same HW division.

Moore had one punch power that threatened anyone but only when paired with great timing and accuracy. Charles lacked raw power at any weight but was always an accurate combination puncher.

Walcott was a bit heavier than these guys. He was closer than them to 200 lbs most of the time.

I believe all four could have success at HW, but only one was used to conceding physical advantages nightly, and that's Marciano, his equalizer of power and durability gave him more wiggle room in an unlimited weight class.

Still I doubt any manager would put 6 foot ish men or below in today's Heavyweight division if it could be avoided. Just from a business risk perspective. You want your guy in a division where he's in the upper tier. Marciano in the 50s took a ton of wear and tear in a short career by conceding height, reach, and weight so frequently.

Without same day weigh in, Moore, Charles, and Marciano could all make Light Heavy comfortably as 180-190 lb fighters. That said, at LHW Marciano's power and durability would be godly. There's a reason when Marciano is paired with a similar size guy, no matter the skillset, he gets favored by a knock out.

Marciano could be effective against larger men, he will always be giving up reach and never be the tallest in his division, but not sure he would want a career out of fighting 30 to 50 pound heavier men every night.

On that note, I think several people on this forum like to avoid Marciano vs similar sized men match ups because they have a fetish for pairing him against giants so they can use boring (he's too small) arguments to justify their fantasy of him losing, something that never happened in reality.

It's odd. Imagine starting a thread when your only intention is to argue about who weighed more. Your brilliant counter to the people arguing Marciano's power, approach and mental toughness might get him past a much larger opponent on a single night is....eh, but he's too small. What an utter waste of time. And this will be my last response to a Marciano thread like this.

Marciano pound for pound proved himself to be an absolute monster against men his own size. I think he proved effective against larger men as well but certainly not an easy night's work.

But to keep pairing him against larger men so you can argue..."hehe, he's too small. The big guys he beat...hehe they weren't that good. No, hehe...Marciano can't be heavier than he was in the 50s...even if that's makes him a modern LHW and Cruiser. Hehe. I want him to fight a 240 lb guy...hehe. He'll lose for sure. "

I get it. You really want Marciano to lose, and this is the only way you can experience it. Good for you. I'm out.

 

I think you'd get a slower version of Marciano with less stamina.
A twenty years old Tua weighed 201lbs on his pro debut.One of his legs is the size of Rocky's body,lol

 

I think most everyone would agree Moore and Charles were better at light heavy that's about 10/12lbs below Marciano's best weight.You are correct in one observation, in reality Marciano never fought a class prime modern heavy. As to the caveats you mention,lets look at them.
The big guys Marciano fought, were they that good or not?
Would Marciano ,as he was, be a modern lhvy or cruiser ,or not?
In his 49 fights Marciano fought 18 men lighter than himself and 7 men under 180lbs.

 

While it's true some guys are weirdos who go out of their way to create hopeless matchups for Rocky because they dislike him, the opposite is also true.

I have seen MANY Rocky fans intentionally go out of their way to match him up against guys who are 6'3+ and 230+. I have also seen some guys try to match Rocky with cruiserweight sized fighters and then people get offended and act like those guys are "beneath" him.

 

Dude...most of these people have no clue how any of this works.

Tua was a chubby 200 lb 20 year old, they will argue naturally became a lean 220+ lb 21 year old thanks to the magic of Polynesian genetics.

If it was his desire, Marciano could have certainly trained to be a lean 220 lb fighter with minimal loss to his stamina thanks to contemporary resources. He did not do this in the 50s, because there was no need to, almost every HW under six foot was targeting that same 185-200 lb range.

People weighed less in the 50s, cause they weren't gorging themselves on carbs. Simple as that.

After the 70s, as America's nutrition standards changed, it was more like 210-225. That's why Holyfield, Tyson, and Tua all liked that range. Nobody wants to be the smallest guy on the block. All three men, I don't care what they say (there is no frame size where a 5'9" guy is naturally lean at 215) could have fought at 180-200 lbs but they trusted their ability to compete at HW, and came in at a weight where they wouldn't be bullied so easily. That's it.

 

Possibly. But he would only need to go 12 rounds. And with modern training you can get more functional mass. But we will never know

Marciano weighed over 200 when he started and trained down because that’s what you did then. Today would be significantly heavier.

 

Moore didn't become a better fighter by starving himself below 175 lbs when he was regularly fighting at a heavier weight. There's a reason he was only cutting weight for title matches, he was simply more comfortable in the 180-190 range even if he had to face bigger men regularly as a result, but did what he had to do to keep his title.

Moore was simply more effective against men his own weight or lighter as most fighters are. Same deal with Charles. He was obviously better against men his weight or smaller than men 20 lbs heavier. Sometimes the obvious is obvious.

The issue is Maricano was not a HW behemoth, I'm done with that crap argument, he was the same weight as Charles and Moore, he just had extraordinary power and durability for his size. Had Marciano had 20 lbs on Charles and Moore, I could see the argument for them being great light heavies that "lost to a great HW" but that was not the case.