Marciano deserves a lot of respect

Anybody think Tua,here 23years old against Ruiz, and weighing 225lbs looks chubby ?
There is some real nonsense spouted about Marciano on this forum.
David Tua vs John Ruiz - Bing video

 

You misread my post. I said Tua was chubby at 200 lbs...which he was, very soft physique. But lean at 220 lbs. It's not that hard to gain muscle/weight than slim down to a lower body fat. Anyone arguing otherwise, just isn't worth the time anymore. Tua had a lower body fat percentage over 220 than he did at 200 lbs starting out. It's called training and nutrition, Tua had an excellent team coming up. In theory, Maricano could have bulked up and slimmed down to a lower body fat percentage if he believed in his power and durability and wanted to campaign as a modern HW with minimal loss of stamina or speed.

But would he want to fight Fury and Joshua, when he could crush the Light Heavies and Cruisers of this era and collect titles and paychecks that way?

 

Moore was a great light heavy and so was Charles, they are maybe the greatest two ever at175lbs,but neither wasa great heavyweight. Both were past prime when they faced Marciano .Charles had a ton of mileage on his clock, 96 fights and was in his 14th year as a pro . Moorea 20 year pro had been in 176 fight said his legs were gone when he faced Marciano.Nobody on this thread has said suggested or implied Marciano was a behemoth .The fact that many have reservations about how successful Marciano could be against big quality heavyweights emphatically illustrates this!
Some times the obvious just goes over some people's heads!

 

Moore was a great light heavy and so was Charles, they are maybe the greatest two ever at175lbs,but neither was a great heavyweight. Both were also past prime when they faced Marciano .Charles had a ton of mileage on his clock, 96 fights and was in his 14th year as a pro . Moore, a 20 year pro had been in 176 fights,he said his legs were gone when he faced Marciano.Nobody on this thread has said ,suggested ,or implied Marciano was a behemoth .The fact that many have reservations about how successful Marciano could be against big quality heavyweights emphatically illustrates this!
Some times the obvious just goes over some people's heads!

 

Moore and Charles would be great cruisers had that division existed then. As stands, Charles was a dominant HW Champion and Moore was probably the most dominant HW of his time behind Maricano, until Patterson (who would have bested Moore at 175).

I would qualify them as great heavyweights as many do, just not as great as they were against light heavyweights. And obviously, their size holds them back, as they were clearly two of the best pound for pound fighters of all time. Maricano is a great pound for pound fighter as well and that's what I'm proposing.

 

Depends on your definition of “great” at HW. But I would wager there aren’t more then 15-20 guys with better HW records/scalps then Moore and Charles (prob less if we are being honest). Def not top ten but I’d call both greats.

 

At 200lbs Tua was a 20 years old kid , he was still maturing , shedding puppy fat, and building muscle. ,you dont point to a still maturing kid as an example .At 225lbs he was in great shape ,at that weight Marciano would be porky. In his prime Marciano's chest was under 40 inches,Tuas was 48inches,they were totally different physiques, all they had in common was both were short . Marciano could not have been leaner, more shredded ,or have less a percentage of body fat than he did when he actually competed,he is the poster boy for being in absolutely terrific shape,Extra weight would just have slowed him down and adversely affected his stamina as it did Joshua, and Bruno.
Drop the patronising, it doesn't suit you.

 

I disagree.

I'm not surprised a 185 lb man has a smaller chest than a 230 lb man.

 

My thought is how do Charles and Moore compare to the great cruisers and smaller cruiser sized HWs (180-199 lbs) . That's a stacked talent pool but I think they hold their own with the best. Marciano is an absolute beast at this weight, Dempsey and Langford too, but who else could beat these guys in fair conditions? Tunney? Holyfield?

 

This.

Tua and Marciano were not the same structurally with the same ability to add functional weight. To disregard that is just to expose a bias.

Furthermore, Marciano on his way in, to compensate for his short reach and lack of speed, used his flexibility, particularly from the waist, to become a smaller target. This no doubt led to some of his late career back issues. Now imagine if he packed on an extra 40 pounds. Given his style he would be a sitting duck for bigger opponents.

 

He weighed over 210 when trying out for a professional baseball team. He was not naturally 185. Tua PURPOSEFULLY gained weight. Just as Marciano would purposefully gain weight. That and the extra weight certainly didn’t help Tua. He was better at 220 (as compared to 240) then any other weight. To say one is being disingenuous is not a statement based in actuality. To think fighters didn’t train down int he 50s is disingenuous as compared to men gaining today.

 

That's not really how it works at all. Packing on an extra 40 lbs of muscular bodyweight isn't going to make Marciano's back worse. If anything it would help because of the increased strength that goes along with such an increase in lean bodyweight.

Against bigger opponents it would benefit Marciano greatly to pack on a significant amount of weight. Against smaller faster fighters that he fought, not so much.

 

Marciano was a great p4p fighter ,very few men under 190lbs could beat him,maybe Dempsey, maybe Langford,outside shot a younger, fresher Charles,thats about it,imo.Everyone has their own definition of great I am very sparing as regards whom I give that accolade to.

 

Dear lord, I’m sick of these threads about Marciano where a man not deprived of nutrients in his own time is somehow going to grow three inches of height and 20-30lbs of muscle he probably would have if he lifted weight? That’s the difference boxers today lift weights that’s why they’re more muscular.

 

Oh please."trying out for a base ball team". Can we just compare fighters as they really were and match them as they actually were, instead of trying to create a hypothetical chimera.The times I've seen Rockista's attempt to do this on Marciano's behalf." If he were alive today he would be 210/215lbs stronger, faster with no loss of stamina",blah ,blah blah.It's BS! Tua was terrific at 225lbs and still fine at 235, if not as sculpted .watch the Ibeabuchi fight.Apart from their height Tua and Rocky had zilch in common. If Tua came in your local bar everyone would think ,"what a tank," they wouldnt even notice Rocky in street clothes.