Marciano deserves a lot of respect

So you're arguing that Charles at 6' and 192 lbs. was smaller than Marciano at possibly 5' 11" at the most and 187 lbs.?

The fact that men with different DNA can fill out at different ages seems elusive for some.

 

Yes. More of Charles' weight was fat. In fact, I'm absolutely mythed this isn't common knowledge. One of them started and competed at middleweight for years, then peaked at light-heavyweight while stating himself that he didn't like carrying weight above 175, the other spent his entire career at heavyweight cutting and training down from 200lbs. Their weights twelve hours before their fight, in which one was way past his best, aren't completely indicative of their actual size. Saying that it is, is narrow-minded and wrong.

 

Charles was born in 1921. Marciano in 1923. Joey Maxim in 1922. Maxim is interesting to compare to Charles as they fought 5 times.

10-27-1942 Maxim 182 lbs., Charles 166 lbs.
12-01-1942 Maxim 184 lbs., Charles 166 lbs.
02-22-1949 Maxim 184 lbs., Charles 182 lbs.
05-30-1951 Maxim 182 lbs., Charles 182 lbs.
12-12-1951 Maxim 178 lbs., Charles 189 lbs.

I think this pretty obviously shows that two different men have different growth patterns. You quote Charles, and like a lot of quotes I see I have no idea where it comes from, that he was better lighter. Well, why does Charles elect to fight at 189 in a crucial fight which could have cost him his return shot at the champion when his opponent is 11 lbs. lighter? It seems more likely he thought he was better at a higher weight.

Why did these two men have such different growth patterns? Maxim was actually younger. My guess would be DNA is important, but probably also nutrition as a youngster. Someone deprived of proper nutrition in his early years can fill out more later when he eats better. He might not get taller, but he can put on muscle. Maxim's weight did not change between 1942 and 1949. Charles put on 16 lbs. I don't think that was all or even mainly fat.

Another error is the assumption that a fighter is at his best at the lightest possible weight. I was just today listening to a discussion about an NFL wide receiver who in his younger days was a world class sprinter. It was mentioned that he plays considerably heavier as an NFL wide receiver. This makes sense as football is a contact sport and quickness and speed have to be balanced against strength and durability. Boxing is also a sport in which strength matters.

Marciano in a separate post:

 

Dude, where are you getting that Marciano had a “bird frame”. He had visibly a bigger frame than other heavyweights that he fought on film. ANYONE that is 5’10 can weigh over 200 lbs while staying physically fit. It’s a total myth that Rocky Marciano is the only guy that Starting Strength would not work for. If he doesn’t grow then he needs to eat more!

There’s no evidence to suggest that Marciano couldn’t weigh over 200 lbs and still maintain a level of stamina above the competition. George Forman put on like 40 lbs of fat and was able to go 12 rounds comfortably. With his work ethic and dedication to training. Not only would he successfully add weight but he would flourish.

 

George, you know that carrying excess weight is really bad on the heart, and body. Later in life, Diabetes is possible, Kidney failure and loss of sight is possible. And let us be honest, now a days fighters love the night life, do not like training. And always once retired, fighters do not train anymore. Their diets are horrible, steaks, and junk food, bad for your health, all that cholesterol, clogged arteries, double bypass surgery.

 

"More of Charles weight was fat."

How do you know that? Possibly Marciano always carried more body fat and so his consistent weight was always due to this extra fat.

Now what were their actual weights? Marciano did not fight in his early 20's as Charles did so we don't know what weight he would have fought at if he had started his career in his teens as Charles did. Nor do we know how early, like Maxim, he reached his optimum adult weight. Let's compare the two men fighting last at given weights:

A weight in the 170's:
Marciano--12-14-1948 at 178 lbs. against Gilley Farron who weighed 198.
Charles--8-10-1949 at 178 lbs. against Gus Lesnevich who weighed 182.

A weight at 180 to 182
Marciano--12-30-1949 at 180 lbs. against Carmine Vingo.
Charles--7-18-1951 at 182 lbs. Jersey Joe Walcott

A weight less than 185 lbs.
Marciano--10-26-1951 at 184 lbs. against Joe Louis at 213 lbs.
Charles--7-18-1951 at 182 lbs. against Jersey Joe Walcott at 194 lbs.

what comes out of this is that Marciano actually reached lighter weights at a later date, making 180 on 12/30/1949 and 184 on 10-26/1951

What did Marciano and Charles generally weigh during the 1948 to 1954 (prior to fighting each other)

Marciano had 45 fights from 1947 through 1953, ranging from 178 to 192 lbs.

190 or above--5
185-189--19
180-184--18
170's--3

Obviously, his optimal weight is in the 180's.

Charles had 30 fights from 1949 to the Marciano fight in 1954, ranging from 178 to 192 lbs.

190 or above--5
180's--23
170's--2

I don't know how to find two men who seem closer in weight over a given time span.

Yes, Charles fought at light-heavyweight earlier, but I don't see the assumption that a younger Marciano, who fought as low as 178 against much heavier men, couldn't have fought at light-heavy if he wanted to.

 

This. Exactly.