Marciano fast footwork, closing the distance, and using angles against Lastarza

I see what you mean. Good technique, but I don't think that's what separates arm punching from power punching.
I'm honestly pretty sure I can hit hard while sitting down. Because it's the shoulder snap that's most important.

Shoulder snap is not just binary. It had it's own volumes and depths. It can be developed, or used sparsely.
With a developed shoulder snap you have more options. You can throw truly powerful punches from more angles. You can sort of separate the power that comes from the shoulder with everything from your body. So you can be really dynamic with it. I can throw powerful hooks by barely twisting or moving my body, but just by some shoulder snap.

Also you can throw wide punches that carry the power (or "kinetic motion") throughout. Definitely. And doing so takes technique. Think about every gazelle hook KO you've seen.

 

Ahhh, so now you're saying it's possible, but that it's harder. Well that is something entirely different.
And you are absolutely right, it is a lot harder. Which is why not every schmoe can throw punches like Rocky or Foreman.
You need a really developed shoulder snap that allows you to gather more power from more angles.

I mean, you're kind of arguing that Marciano's form was an arm punching form.
You see anything off about that?

 

I know you said you weren't talking about Rocky, but this whole argument stems from his uppercut.
https://streamable.com/u16it

You think thats an arm punch?
It barely grazes Rolands forhead and shakes him.
Imagine if it landed flush, oh my god. Good thing it didn't.

 

If that particular Marcianos uppercut had landed it wouldnt have been as effective as if he had stepped in and shortened up the punch. I dont have a problem with Marcinaos punching form in general, it was certainly effective.
Im arguing that short punches are not arm punches.

 

Shoulder snap punchers can also punch short, and all of them do, including Rocky and Dempsey on the inside for instance.
But maybe I made it seem like a shoulder snap puncher wouldn't use short punches, and that would indeed be wrong.

Ezzards description of an uppercut was in response to Marciano's uppercut which he deemed bad.
So if you see Marciano's uppercut as good form, I'm with you.

 

By the way, look at that form when that uppercut is separated from the rest of the gif.
Look at where his knees are bent, where they are pointing in relation to the trajectory of the punch, and how he pushes off his back foot and turns the hips.
That form is amazing.

https://streamable.com/u16it

 

Exactly, that's why when he crouches, it looks as if he's carrying someone on his back. It looks 'heavy'. It's that leverage he has ready to use every second.

 

Whew....

Well boys, I went straight into the eye of the storm with this thread.
It was a wild ride. I'm battered and bruised, but I think I did alright.

Fair play everyone.

 

This reminds me of a point that isn't made enough around here: Marciano had to take chances, load up on punches and throw them in ways that left himself open to counters because of his physique. If he did not fight like this, he wouldn't have fared well against some of the better technicians he faced during his career, and likely would have had a record riddled with losses. Even though his form was therefore frequently poor, it was effective for him--he got away with it--primarily because he enjoyed substantial power and durability advantages over the vast majority of his opponents. Hence, his real life success using these tactics does not mean that his technique was sound or that it would serve him well against skilled, athletic, sharp-punching big men.

 

What Ezzard described wasn't an arm punch (sorry if this has been covered already), but rather the textbook form for throwing an uppercut. Throwing from below the hip is a no-no because it both telegraphs the punch (in most instances) and, more importantly, leaves a boxer wide open to counters. I'd always assumed that any halfway decent trainer would explain this to his students within the first few weeks of instruction.

 

I agree that Marciano maximized his tools. Few people loaded up and fully leveraged their bodyweight in their punches as frequently as Marciano. Most boxers are taught not to do what he does because it slows down their punching, and often leaves them exposed and open to counters, requiring them to sustain unnecessary damage when they are in with physically equal opposition.

 

Good breakdown; I agree with all of this.

 

Definitely not an arm punch but it would have had even more power if it had been more compact.

The main issue with throwing uppercuts like that though is that it can be a huge defensive liability when you are in with live, dangerous opponents who are in position to counter.

 

Our definitions are different.
I consider most boxers arm punchers.
I believe what they teach you in boxing courses is essentially arm punching.
They teach you how to use your body to get the most of it, and they help you refine your form and technique to maximize. In fact I was told that by an ex champ, that I have a lot of power, but I'm not maximizing it. They can teach me the maximizing part, but the raw ingredients I had to develop on my own, at home, watching Joe Louis-ahem.

They teach you the right way. Never to lose balance when punching. It's safe, you can teach it to anyone, and it works.

Punching like Dempsey however is a more complex endeavor, and you won't learn that in boxing 101.

If they teach you how to punch wicked hard, I don't think I'd stand out as a puncher at my gym all. Because I came there on day one with good power.
If it was teachable, I think everyone would be able to punch like Golovkin.

Like Charlie Goldman?

 

You gotta know when to use it.
Marciano picked the right time.

Also, I don't think that punch is getting any stronger by being shorter. He catapults it like a trebuchet.