Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

I accpet that but to make an accurate compariuson is impossible so i don't see how making claims that marciano was a harder puncher when you have no real proof. I accpet your only doing this for funs sake etc, however marciano never really fought any big guys so it's to hard to tell if he would have koed them the same way he koed the samller ones.

 

Holyfield certainly did not have a similar workrate to Marciano(at least that he could sustain) by the late '90s. His speed/reflexes were considerably degraded and he would, shortly after the Lewis fights, be decked and beaten by John Ruiz. Marciano absolutely beats him at that stage, probably by knockout.

On what basis was Holyfield's win over Tyson the "best performance of his career"? It was impressive, no doubt, but Tyson was past his prime and not the terror he'd been in the '80s. Moorer, at the time of the Holyfield rematch, had just barely won decisions over Axel Schulz and Vaughn Bean in his last three fights, and would never win another significant heavyweight fight again.

No, I'd say the Bowe win was Holyfield's career best, and the wins over Holmes(who would go on to beat Ray Mercer and remain a force for years), Mercer, and Foreman(who would go on to reclaim the world championship) were effectively on par with the ones over Tyson(Foreman and Holmes were better than Tyson in the first place, in my opinion, and they certainly aged a lot better than he did, too).

 

I have some real reservations as to weather or not Marciano could have dusted guys like Ruddock, Grant or Golata in under two rounds.

I have very little doubt however, as far as Lewis dispatching Moore, Walcott, Charles and an aging Louis within a short duration.

 

Perhaps your mamma hits also much harder, that would explain your mental state...

 

Could the same "racist" accusation not be made about your inflamatory post?

 

Btw, mr magoo, look how racist I´m (in my avatar)...


the whole forum is racist IMO...

 

I can accpet that they could punch as hard as alot of modern big men but lewis was the best of all big men thats where i think he has the edge. I have also said p4p i think marcinao was a better puncher but when lewis wanted to be he could be devastating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuOzydfpv28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9msELiZKyU (marcinao koing walcott to keep in with the thread)

 

Thanks for taking time to respond to my elaborate post.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Indeed Mavrovic' fought pretty mediocre opposition outside of Lewis. This need not be a bad mark on his chin, though - Chuvalo was mediocre at times as well, but his chin is unquestionable. Now, Mavrovic' chin obviously isn't, but outside of Lewis, he took one some fine punchers, Cantatore (27 KO out of 33 wins), Mitchel (16 KO out of 18 wins) and of course Lewis himself. Lewis has proven himself as puncher in other fights and Mavrovic took flush combinations from him without staggering. While his chin isn't proven to the extent of a Chuvalo, his chin looked iron for sure everytime i saw him. Indeed Lewis was the only top10 ranked fighter Mavrovic faced. Probably why he lost all lopsided.

2. Alright.

3. Louis had not been knocked out in 15 years, this is true. And i give Marciano credit for that. Holyfield had been stopped once before he fought Lewis, but that was not really from punches, but more from his heart/HGH problem, which became apparant as draining his energy as early as round three. Had Holyfield retired at the same age as Louis did (after the Lennox fights), then he would've been stopped once in his entire career and that one coming from a disease. He foolishly decided to continue fighting and gathered another stoppage loss and is likely to add another KO loss at the hands of Ibragimov in little over a week from now.
Many people would call Holyfield more durable than Louis, diseases aside. Myself i'm not really sure, Louis looks a bit worse in this department, but he fought more contenders so that might even it out.

4. You say about Lewis-Holyfield "He should not have left it to the judges" but i think that is ridiculous. You don't go in a boxing ring with the thought of having to knock your opponent out on this level. Even if you're talking about the second fight - how often has a fighter blatantly been robbed twice in a row in a fight that was watched world wide and at top level?
Lewis won 17 out of 24 rounds. Maybe not domination but a very convincing victory over a top10 all time great heavyweight.

You say "it's about the same, actually" comparing Turpin and Marciano vs Cockell. But that was my point. It's not impressive at all if a heavyweight top fighter does just as well against an opponent as a top middleweight fighter. That's the whole reason there are weight classes in the first place, because heavyweights are supposed to be better than middleweights.

I stand by my point that Lewis impressed more against his small opponents than Marciano did against his big ones. And Holyfield is hardly a Cockell or a Savold.

5. Fair enough.

6. Alright. I have to add though, that i am much more impressed by Marciano than i am by Dempsey - i rate Marciano at #4 in my all time great list, Dempsey outside of the top10.

7. Indeed it won't change anything. But if Lewis had fought 190lb fighters in his prime then i can guarantee you his KO percentage would go through the roof as Marciano's did. I'm not denying Marciano is a great puncher, obviously.

8. The fact (and that is a fact) that since roughly the mid-70's, no heavyweight contender has weighed around 190lb, the sole exception being Leon Spinks. It's not like all 190lb fighters vanished from the earth all of a sudden. Just that they were facing a, now, large group of talented 210+lb fighters that they simply could not longer compete against.

Compare it to Hispanic fighters. They are small by nature - the average height is 5'6 and the average weight is little below 160lbs (which means a fighting weight at welterweight, this numbers are over the entire male population). Why have we seen only a handful (Gonzalez, Ramos, Bonavena, Firpo, maybe a few more) of Hispanic heavyweight contenders in the entire history of the sport?
Simple: The population grows rather small on average, thus having a very small talent pool in the upper weight classes, which as a group simply cannot compete with the big guys coming from a much larger talent pool.
There have been plenty of pound for pound great Hispanic fighters, so this can't be explained by "boxing is not popular in their culture".

 

Come on how many good fighters have the three you just mentioned fought compared to lewis, put lewis in against oridnary fighters like the ones vitali,wlad and tua have faced and his ko rate goes up as well.
Also if lewis had smaller gloves do you think he would have got more ko's? (it doesn't matter if people in marcinao's time used the same gloves as him as the comparison is with lewis)

 

Also i think the smaller gloves point is completely irrelevant, and i have said this before in other threads.


Smaller gloves tend to focus their power on small areas. This is why smaller gloves are more painful and will cause more bruises, cuts, broken ribs and other superficial body damage.

However, a pure knockout or knockdown happens when the brain is rattled too much. Which is usually when the head is turned really fast. Now when you hit someone with a small glove, a lot of the power is going to be absorbed by local bones and skin (as witnessable from the broken bones and cuts) and part of the energy will go into twisting the head.
Now hit the same spot with a big glove, and less of the energy will be absorbed by local bones and skin, but instead it will almost all be absorbed the "pushing" the head side/upways, really fast. This is what causes the knockdown. In short, bigger gloves "spend" more energy on doing what triggers knockouts (twisting the head) whereas smaller gloves will spend part of their energy on damaging local areas.
Compare it with being stabbed in your cheek by a knife or being hit really hard by a book or a piece of wood of that dimension. The knife will definitly do more damage, but the book is much more likely to knock you out.

Watch the Lou Resto-Billy Collins bout. The padding in Resto's gloves are removed yet Collins is never knocked down or out. But the superficial damage is tremendous.

Of course, the above analysis is only valid for punches to the face, but since 95% of the knockouts come from there, let's stick to it.

 

You also box, right?