Marciano Harder Hitter than Lennox Lewis

The odd thing about Ruiz is that he always found a way to win. No skill, no athleticism, and he ended up winning anyway. Very strange. Although it's a bit off topic, I would not COMPLETELY discount his chances against Vitali--not because I believe him to be on the same level, but because I'm still leery of the "Ruiz Curse".

 

Alll good points, and I can't disagree.

I will say however, that you get just a tad carried away the claim that every joke with a flashy record against nobodies gets posters willing to dub him as an all time great. While I think men like Mason, Klitschko etc, are not greats, Lennox Lewis certainly is, and there is a lot of substance to that record than just mere numbers. In only 44 pro fights, Lewis defeated some 25 ranked contenders, which is far more than what say, Marciano, Jim Jeffries, Joe Frazier, Floyd Patterson or even Jack Dempsey ever beat, or at least so I think. Of course I understand your reasoning that its difficult to separate the greats from the pretenders today due to padded records, whereas the cream definately rose to the top in decades past.

Nevertheless, I agree with your explanation.

 

I had edited my original post to acknowledge your point abou this, but you had already read the first one.

 

No statistics can evaluate any fighters power.. You have to have either met both men or know of someone that has trained both men..

IMO Lewis has much heavier hands but either way the Marciano has enough power to knock any heavyweight out.. It doesn't much matter but for the record Lewis has the better power because of his natural size and technique..

 

I'm neither agreeing nor disgreeing with your claim that Lewis had more power, but I have to question your comment about him having more power due to technique. Lewis was a bit more of a boxer/puncher type to me, who used more unplanted footwork and often operated from behind the jab. Marciano was more planted and often through punches while coming up at his opponents. If we looked at the mechanics of these two techniques, wouldn''t you say that Rocky's style might suggest a better method for generating more power in a single punch?

 

I'm an official Vitali hater so I hate you make me sit here and defend him But he'd take Ruizs jab away with his 1-2 and speed.

When Ruiz had someone quicker than him he usually lost - RJJ, Toney, Tua - quick fighters. Vitali was on par speed wise and had the longer reach taking away Ruizs jab.

Ruiz chin is suspect and Vitali had good power.

Vitali was considered elite, Ruiz was not.

Resume wise Ruiz is better, ability wise its comparing different divisions. The 1 common opponent was taken out by Vitali in 2 rounds - Ruiz was getting outboxed (up on the cards or not) and faked a low blow to get a DQ - That shows Vitali as outragously superior. Vitali does have good wins - Sanders was a massive puncher with amazing speed with poor stamina. Williams had beat Tyson. Donald, Hide, Hoffman, were all decent fringe contenders and disposed of easily. Vitali has a massive KO and Win percentage. Vitali was easily beating Byrd until he retired with a should injury.

I officially hate you - you've turned me into DR Z :twisted: But Ruiz does not stand a chance - how does he win? He cant

 

If you like, I can start calling you Z-Puncher or perhaps Dr. Power.

We'll try em' both out for a couple days and see which one you like better

 

1. Its impossible to catch a drugs cheat unless you do random tests on them year round and have access to them year round and do urine and blood tests. Pre-fight urine tests are easy to get round

2. Actually I think Louis has taken allot of punnishment - the Schmelling beating was murderous. Walcott gave him a beat down in 1. Not to mention all the random KDs

3. Disgree, I think 36yo Holyfield takes Charles on aggression. But it would be a more scrappy contest.

4. So we finally agree Holyfield has a much better chin than Louis and hence is hard to stop than Louis? Seriously Holyfield took some murderous shots in the first fight, which if Louis took I don't think he'd finnish the fight. I dont think we'll agree who wins this 1 - I'd pick Holy to have a very close contest and edge it but I certainly see it going the distance. He ws taking shots from ATG punchers in Lennox, Moorer, Tyson and coming back with fire.

 

How did he EVER win, though? He was always unskilled and incompetent compared to his opponents.

Like I said, The Curse has a chance of striking vs. Vitali. Ruiz found a way to win against extremely good opposition.

 

If we're going through the trouble to build a time machine and match these guys up, I'm sure we can take the time to do year-round steroid tests.

Walcott didn't exactly beat him down in his fight. The Schmeling fight was a murderous beating, but after that Louis was never beaten remotely as badly. The closest anyone came was lightheavyweight Billy Conn!

Perhaps. I see it more as a competitive version of Holyfield-Byrd, with Holyfield being outfoxed.

Of course he has a better chin!

My point was that they were roughly of similar quality. Holyfield had the chin, but Louis had other characteristics that made him equally hard to defeat by knockout.

Yep, but when one of those ATG heavyweights started going after the body (Tyson), it helped him--until he switched back to headhunting. Marciano was far more consistent, and the smaller gloves in this hypothetical matchup will help him to get those punches through.

 

Ruiz followed boxing rule number 1 - learn the jab, throw the jab consistently and beat your opponent to the punch with it. Vitali had the longer jab and didnt neglect it. The long right hand is the perfect counter for the jab. Vitali had a greater workrate. How doe you see Ruiz realistically winning and WTF are we talking about Ruiz and Vitali I've forgot :twisted:

But many said he lost 3 to Holyfield, got a gift DQ against Johnson, lost to Golotta, lost to oaf Valuev and Chageev. Not to mention landslide losses to Toney, RJJ and Tua. Most of Ruiz beat wins are controversal and the guys he beat are not very good - Past Prime Holyfield (1 razor thin win out of 3 fights), 37yo Golota, pretending to be low blowed against Johnson and those are his best 2 wins.

Do you think the Curse of Ruiz will work on Marciano too?