Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janwalshs, Aug 2, 2010.


  1. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

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    Putting your body into a shot is a matter of technique, not explosiveness, which is an athletic trait. I appreciate your use of videos to back up your point, but in all honesty they don't exactly counter my initial point, which was that the Rock was primarily a heavy handed fighter who put a lot of weight behind his punches. Just to clarify, I'm not saying he lacked any explosiveness -- that would be physically impossible and like a lot of fighters he demonstrated quickness of hand on occasion -- but that he wouldn't fall into the same bracket as a Tyson or a Morrison.

    Here, to illustrate.

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  2. mostobviousalt

    mostobviousalt Active Member booted Full Member

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    Archie Moore were blown up welterweights too. :naughty2:

    And Walcott/Ezzard were blown up middleweights.
     
  3. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    I don't understand what you're trying to say.
     
  4. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

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    No offence but I don't quite think you understand what explosiveness means. What you're arguing seems more along the lines of how much sustained pressure Rocky could muster coupled with a few stylistic things he does while on the attack that helps him to control distance. The actual shots that make up the clip aren't very explosive at all.
     
  5. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Holyfield was lighter than Marciano when they started their careers. Holyfield started fighting in the 170's. Marciano started in the 180's. You posed the question by weight, not height.
    Now you want to point to Holyfields superior height and call Marciano names like a baby? Go for it. You are more concerned about being right, than you are about being part of a cooperative effort to figure stuff out. It's annoying.


    Holyfield had a different style than Marciano. Overall, I think that Marciano was the better fighter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  6. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    that picking all those guys over rocky based primarily on size is reasonable. Or that picking rocky without a very good reason why the huge weight disadvantage can be overcome is not realistic.
     
  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Yeah, this is spot on. And FWIW, I vaguely recall telling Reznick in another thread that his use of "explosive" is very different than its accepted use.
     
  8. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    a common tactic from people arguing nonsense. sudddenly a common word we all understand means something else entirely.
     
  9. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    How exactly would you gauge the explosiveness of Tyson and Morrison? Let's say you were comparing the two.

    To me, explosiveness is essentially generating lots of power very quickly and exerting it in a short burst. For instance, a defensive tackle, that runs over a blocker while springing out off the line of scrimmage in a 3 points stance, is a display of explosive power.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
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  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    How would you explain explosiveness, and how it applies to boxing? Who is more explosive in your opinion; George Foreman or Joe Frazier?
     
  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think that the ambiguity cuts both ways to be honest.

    Marciano did not fight any world class superheavyweights, but there is also no good reason why he should have fought any.

    He took care of business against the best challengers available, who happened to be small technical heavyweights for the most part.

    It might be the case that he was a giant killer like Jack Dempsey, or he might have folded when he came up against elite opponents of that size.

    I suspect that the truth lies somewhere between.
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Are you just ill-informed or disingenuous?

    Holy started his career at 22. Marciano at 25. At 26, once his career got rolling he weighed in at 178. At the same age, Holy was 210.

    The mention of height and reach is to illustrate the frame upon which the guys had to pack on useful muscle. Holyfield presents a significantly larger canvas upon which to paint. Now, I can't believe someone who has displayed knowledge in the past really does not know this.

    As far as figuring things out, I don't see any precedent for a slow-footed, slow-fisted, powerpuncher who tips the scales at 185 doing any major damage in the modern heavyweight division. I just could not pick him as a favorite over any of these guys. Could he win? Sure. If dropped into the heavyweight division today, he would rack up some losses and rack up some wins. He just wouldn't be consistently dominant nor have any sort of longevity with his style or physical attributes.

    But, hey, I could be absolutely wrong about this. WTF know?
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    Can you think of many 185-lb power punchers who even dominated the cruiserweight ranks?(just curious)

    You can't possibly interpret his question as asking you to name fighters who started their careers at 185... Holyfield was clearly a much, much bigger, stronger man than Golovkin, even before he hulked up and became a serious, solid heavyweight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  14. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales Full Member

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    You seem to be ruling out the possibility that Marciano was a magical immortal who would easily outclass and out-ATG all of the scrubs who currently rule the division.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    LOL, Vitali could be one of Rocky's toughest matchup of the six. How many does Rocky win? 1 or 2, this is heavyweight boxing and Rocky is always dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016


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