Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janwalshs, Aug 2, 2010.


  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    And considering the view at the time was that there was so little between Don and Nino the press would have said EXACTLY the same about Nino too. Nino had absolutely no chance against Rocky either. Moore proved it twice.

    . Realistically, since coming home after the war, Charles was 55-7 up to fighting Marciano ..and of his defeats, had only been beaten decisively once in 62 fights. That, against a man he officially beat twice. 6 points defeats were either very close or could have went either way.

    Charles didn’t win an official professional fight from 1943 until 1946 Previous to this, as a 168lb 21 youth, Charles had clocked up 34 fights in 3 years in an almost separate career before the war.

    Nino was always behind Archie Moore in so far as being a legitimate threat to the title. He did not rematch Charles in an eliminator then later, after Nino beat Jackson, the second Charles Marciano fight went ahead over a Nino shot that would have been bad business. Then, with Moore rightfully clamouring for a shot, Nino is seen as no more attractive than Don, who goes next. After Don, Nino is given his chance of an eliminator with the far superior Moore, who has already beat Nino as well as Henry and Baker. And Nino lost that one.

    yes but you know why Charles went ahead don’t you? Nino was offered a rematch with Charles as an elimination bout to face Rocky but he opted out of it. Satterfeild stepped in and Charles flattened him. So Charles won the eliminator. Not Nino. It could have been him. Perhaps he thought he couldn’t beat Charles a second time and needed more experience? After all beating Charles, Nino had been unknown at the time, was coming off loses to Johnson, Moore and Gilliam.
     
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  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    For the record, The Boxing News incredibly picked Don Cokkell to win on points. So it isn’t true that “Every newspaper both side of the Atlantic said it was a mismatch,that Cokkell had no chance.”

    This might directly explain why the British press came down so hard on Marciano “fighting dirty”, even though he was characteristically no more dirty than any other time Rocky fought...
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 8:33 AM
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  3. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    It comes with the territory
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    18,000 turned up to watch the Cokkell v Marciano mismatch.
    61,574 to watch Moore v Marciano
    47,585 for Charles 1
    44,562 for Lastarza 2
    Even Harry Kid Mathews and Rocky drew 31,118 and that wasnt a title fight!
    Valdes v Neuhaus 19000.
     
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would only pick the big modern day punchers to make short work of him. Boxers like Ali and Holmes would more trouble with his style and persistence.
     
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think they would tko him on cuts.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And I agree that could happen
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    What has any of this got to do with Boxing News picking Don Cokkell to win on points?


    Also I found this:

    “Cokkell is the best heavyweight you've ever sent to America," "No British fighter has ever made such an impression on the West Coast. ****ell could beat Marciano on the best day Rocky ever knew. Marciano can't box, he's just a crude swinger. ****ell would be too smart for him.” -Jack Hurley.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 1:31 PM
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Its pertinent to you saying Cokkell was some kind of a draw against Marciano,he wasn't,it was viewed as the foregone conclusion it was.Even Marciano,that most dedicated of trainers couldn't get up for the fight.

    Jack Hurley said lot of things including telling Harry Kid Mathews he couldn't fight.How many British heavyweights had fought in the US prior to 1953,it wouldn't be hard to be better than Phil Scott would it? Cokkell obviously wasn't as good as Farr. Cokkell had beaten Mathews in the US just prior to challenging Marciano.
    Mathews was managed by Hurley, what else was Hurley going to say?Cokkel is ****? How does that make his boy look? ps
    Cokkell had just the two fights in the US before challenging Marciano,with Mathews and in one Mathews retired with a back injury,what's impressive about that?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 3:02 PM
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  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I never said he was a draw, it is true that when it was either going to be Cokkell or Nino next it was decided there wasn’t much between them. Both of them were foregone conclusions. The larger success of outdoor fights on the west coast that drew more than Nino had plus the glamour of Empire titles fairly tipped the balance in Dons favour.

    just as Nino would have been since there was nothing between them. Remember Nino is the guy who lost to Gillium, Moore and Harold Johnson. Beat Charles, opted out of a rematch with Ezzard then stank against Parker. Beat Jackson but lost momentum whist Don had a series of better regarded fights with Mathews and lastarza.

    but Hurley also said Don would win. And so did the boxing news. I think you need to acknowledge you were wrong about both sides of the Atlantic giving Don no chance. Boxing News on one side. Hurley on the other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 3:47 PM
  11. JackSilver

    JackSilver Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I just got one question.

    Who the hell is cokkell?
     
  12. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Could happen.... Dont forget they need that jab that's all they got against the Brockton Bomber
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Same guy as Don C0ckell.
     
  14. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Every Marciano hater has a twig to pick - yet let logs be overlooked when it comes to their favorite fighters- you are one of his haters- Lets see if you use the same measurement against your heroes
     
    choklab likes this.
  15. JackSilver

    JackSilver Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I see.

    ****ell.

    just testing.
     


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