Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janwalshs, Aug 2, 2010.


  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    14,973
    5,599
    Sportsbook:
    1,611
    Mar 17, 2010
    You asked about 185lb fighters in the last 40 years going onto be dominant in the HW division. I gave you an answer, and now you want to change the conditions after the fact? If your point extends beyond that question, cool, but don't call me disingenuous for answering your question the way it was asked to me.

    How much longer are you going to use petty tactics to debate me? Is it a permanent condition?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  2. FrankieinTexas

    FrankieinTexas the Bronx to Texas Full Member

    520
    31
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 16, 2016
    Do you have a splintered stick up your butt, or where you just born angry? Just asking. No harm, no foul.
     
  3. mostobviousalt

    mostobviousalt Active Member booted Full Member

    520
    95
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 4, 2016
    Was Holyfield a 185 lbs fighter when he was at heavyweight?

    This is approaching Mag1965 levels of stupidity who argued that Duran was bigger than Hearns because he fought at 154 before Hearns.
     
  4. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

    7,921
    928
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 8, 2010
    Yes, that's exactly how I define it. Regarding Tyson and Morrison I wouldn't necessarily gauge one over the other. I'm not sure it merits any purpose anyway. They were both very much in that upper bracket.

    Marciano's explosiveness is more comparable to someone like Oleg Maskaev if you want a modern comparison. That's independent of their skill or level of output before you ask.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  5. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    14,973
    5,599
    Sportsbook:
    1,611
    Mar 17, 2010
    I'm not angry. He just called me something I wasn't, so I told him.

    Got something meaningful to add to the topic, or are you just here to guess what emotional state people are in?
     
  6. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    62,916
    10,613
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 15, 2006
    I think that there is a legitimate issue with the size of the smaller heavyweights, and the methods that they are now using to bulk up.

    Evander Holyfield was basically smaller than Joe Louis, minus the steroids, and he still had a fraction of his power.
    Chris Byrd was never anything more than a roided Tommy Loughran.

    Michael Spinks was little more than a supermidleweight.

    That is why we have not had a dominate 185lb champion recently.
     
  7. FrankieinTexas

    FrankieinTexas the Bronx to Texas Full Member

    520
    31
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 16, 2016
    I've posted on here already. My opinions have been stated.
     
  8. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    14,973
    5,599
    Sportsbook:
    1,611
    Mar 17, 2010
    I think Tyson is in the upper bracket. Morrison is close, but that depends on how inclusive we're getting. Oleg is nowhere near as explosive as Rocky. Rocky is way more active, and easily has more power in his punches. Rocky can explode out of the crouch with leaping punches that cover considerable distance. And he can throw those kinds of punches one after another the whole fight. And Morrison is definitely not as explosive as Rocky.

    Thats my take anyway.
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    41,670
    11,085
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 11, 2005
    And your answer was a guy debuting as a cruiserweight.

    Good on ya.
     
  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    14,973
    5,599
    Sportsbook:
    1,611
    Mar 17, 2010
    My answer was a ~185lb guy who went on to dominate the hw division.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    41,670
    11,085
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 11, 2005
    He was born 9 pounds and 3 ounces. Do you want to go back that far?

    In the very short spans where he was the dominant heavy, he was in the 205 to 210 range. That is what the division required, even from an expert boxer with a ton of heart.
     
  12. Absolutely!

    Absolutely! Fabulous, darling! Full Member

    7,921
    928
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 8, 2010
    I don't see any reason why Morrison can't be included in that upper bracket. Bear in mind I'm not saying a fight between the two would be even; I think Tyson handily destroys Tommy at their respective bests. In terms of explosiveness, however, both men were capable of producing some terrific bursts of offensive energy.

    Again, regarding Rocky, you're including things which aren't relevant, like activity level. Explosiveness is not going to be the same throughout a fight. It's something which drops off markedly as the fight goes on. That's why explosive fighters typically tend to fade down the stretch, while more cardio-centric guys keep up the same steady pace until the end. Basically fast twitch vs slow twitch. Marciano was, it seems clear to me, the second type.
     
    It's Ovah and reznick like this.
  13. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    14,973
    5,599
    Sportsbook:
    1,611
    Mar 17, 2010
    He started boxing in the 170's. I'm not talking about his size in high school, I'm talking about his size as a professional boxer.

    Did you not ask me to name a 185lb fighter who went on to succeed as a HW?
    Did I not name one?

    Which was why I asked you, if you meant a 185lb guy fighting at HW at the 185lb weight. Because I thought they stopped allowing those fights long ago.

    I disagree. Someone who can punch and fight like Rocky would be a grave threat to any heavyweight in the ring. His only nightmare matchup is Foreman.
     
  14. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    14,973
    5,599
    Sportsbook:
    1,611
    Mar 17, 2010
    Yeah, I know you're just comparing the explosive attribute. Morrison does have some wicked explosive power. I mean, if the list is open to a top 30, he would be on it. But top 10? Probably not.

    I mention activity level because Rocky was more consistent with his use of explosive power throughout a fight. I think what you say of expended explosive energy is true, and impacted Tyson harder than Marciano. Stylistically, Marciano was more consistent in his use of explosiveness.

    There are exceptions to the rule, but generally, I think you're spot on. It's the reason why swarmers seem to have a shorter shelf life.
     
  15. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,199
    2,375
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 18, 2012

    Let's be honest, there's a hell of a lot more nightmares of the divisions since Foreman for Rocky....
     


Sign up for ESPN+ and Stream Live Sports! Advertisement