Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

I've just went through Larry Gains autobiography to see what he thought of Obbie Walker.

Larry was 34 years old and by his own admission "long in the tooth by then". Having already shared a ring with Primo Carnera, Jack Dempsey, George Godfrey and Max Schmeling Larry struggled to take this "loud dressing, flashy talking fighter" called Obbie seriously in their "title" fight.

Larry wrote "He stood fairly square, the way some of the good hookers do, and shown he could hit very hard with both hands. The punches came from all angles and it was his unorthodox style which was said to make him hard to handle"

"he was an impetuous man, accustomed to the short route. So I was content to find him with my left, keeping the fight at long range and then occasionally tying him up inside. With every round he became more frustrated, more inclined to wildness. The wilder he became the easier he was to catch. But despite his eccentric ways, he was a dangerous man. It was easy to see how he had built up a fearsome reputation ..but as a puncher he was not quite in the Dempsey or the Godfrey class. He put on a grandstand finish, growling with frustration all the way but I retained my title comfortably enough"

 

In 80 years time we won't be here..

 

Unless Moores Law, and exponentially progressive software can do anything about it!

 

I don't see what relevance this has to matching Marciano as he was, against the heavyweights I named as they were?

 

Well I think it has something to do with champions being dismissed purely for being in the same category as 90% of the best Heavyweights we have ever seen. You have picked a group of the biggest ones outside of this size category (mostly by design) who many would pick to lose to some of this number of past champions who (as they were) would today also fall within the fully hydrated modern cruiserweight class.

Why dismiss somebody for being within 90% of the best ever heavyweights against those who are within 10% of the built up guys?

 

How they would do against other heavyweights is totally irrelevant to this thread, the question I asked is how would they do against Marciano? That is the ONLY question posed by my thread .If you don't want to answer it fine, but in that case why bother engaging in the thread, because everything else is just so much circular bullsh*t and spin that does not address the subject. I'm not interested in what a particular fighter may have done against another fighter I want to know what he would have done against Marciano as both actually were when they boxed? That's why I framed the question as I did!
If you are interested in who would be a dehydrated/rehydrated cruiser several decades ago and how they would perform against others of your nomination or whatever, please make your own thread asking that question!
THIS THREAD ASKS ONE SIMPLE QUESTION HOW WOULD MARCIANO AS HE ACTUALLY WAS, 5 10"185LBS, IN HIS PRIME DO AGAINST
VITALI,WLAD,LISTON, BOWE,LEWIS,FOREMAN.AS THEY ACTUALLY WERE WHEN THEY FOUGHT IN THEIR PRIMES?
IE. WHICH ONES DOES HE BEAT? WHICH ONES DOES HE LOSE TO? NOTHING ELSE IS ASKED FOR OR REQUIRED.

 

Marciano beats the lightest version of Lewis and proberbly has the most trouble with the heaviest version of Lewis. I would not be surprised if Rocky gets a clean sheet against the rest to be honest. All but Vitali were knocked out at one time or another so you have to give one of history's best punchers 50-50 at worst against Guys who were knocked out. That is my take. As they were.

 

Did you read the part that says "in their primes"?That means the Lewis was was around 240/245lbs.

 

but ostensibly, they all did more than facing 2 elites ever.
As soon as vitali steps up, he gets stopped. Everyone one time he tried. This is not the case with the others.

 

Lewis had a couple of primes. The first prime was when McCall knocked Lennox out and the other prime was where Rahman knocked Lewis spark out.

But even saying that, Lewis with his combination of size, huge physical strength that kind of gave him lumbering raw power as well as clinical sharpness would still be the most likely to trouble Marciano..Lennox as he was, the biggest (switched on version) was so hard to beat because he has ludicrous advantages and pedigree over Rocky. I just think shaky moments with Briggs and Struggles with Billups, Mercer, Mavrovic and Holyfeild together with knockouts from McCall and Rahman still give Rocky (and any great fighter) a slim chance against the odds. Why not?

 

I haven't made a case either way,Im just asking the question.
How did Lewis "struggle "with Mavrovic? Here are the scorecards.

• Judge: Tom Kaczmarek 119-109

• Judge: Franco Ciminale 117-111

• Judge: Bob Logist 117-112

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 117-111 Lewis
• World Boxing Council Heavyweight Title (4th defense by Lewis)

Notes

• Mavrovic was ranked No. 1 by the WBC.
• There was a crowd of about 4,000 in the outdoor pavilion at Mohegan Sun.
• Lewis landed 216 of 507 punches, while Mavrovic connected on 132 of 298.

Lewis struggled with Billups? How many rounds did Billups win?

Here are the scorecards 99-91,98-92,100-90.

Oh and Lewis was 24 years old, having his 19th fight.

Lewis' "shaky moment" with Briggs,whom he floored 3 times for a stoppage.

"Lewis charged across the ring to meet Briggs, hit mostly arms and elbows, then was backed away by an overhand right by Briggs, the first solid punch of the fight. A more cautious Lewis then began stalking, stepping into Briggs behind his long jab. Then, out of nowhere, Briggs caught Lewis with the left hook that sent him reeling into the ropes, and before he could get his balance, Briggs was back on him, flailing away. Lewis covered and tried to tie up Briggs, but Briggs stepped back and hit him on the head with a right that turned Lewis around. Lewis caught himself with his gloves to keep from falling, then covered on the ropes and was saved by the bell. Briggs went back to his corner with a smile on his face, and when he returned for Round 2, he was like a schoolboy with a new bike. He unloaded the left again and caught Lewis flush again, but this time Lewis held Briggs with an armlock, which drew a warning from the referee. By Round 3, Lewis seemed to have regained his composure and peppered Briggs with a piston jab, catching him twice with right hand leads to Briggs' jaw. Briggs began bleeding from the mouth. Briggs ran into a flurry of head shots at the start of Round 4, grabbed the top rope to keep from falling, then ran into another flurry that sent him reeling backward, his knees bending. The ropes kept him from going down. But Lewis, smelling the end, was on top of him again, and this time a solid right to the head put Briggs on his back. He looked to his corner for help, got up, and fought back before the bell. When Briggs returned for Round 5, his mouth was open, oozing blood, and Lewis was punishing him now with the jab, with uppercuts and combinations that Briggs couldn't avoid. Then a left hook from left field caught Briggs and sent him down once more. But Briggs managed to get up at the count of eight and tried to fight back, but couldn't. He went down again, and this time Cappuccino waved the bout over. Briggs, on his knees, looked up and argued."
How would you say this compares to reigning champion, bang in his prime, Marciano being floored by a 40 years old lightheavyweight and stunned to the point that he thought he had a mandatory count respite before continuing?

 

How would I say that compares to Marciano (in his last fight) being floored by his #1heavyweight contender who he knocked down five times altogether himself (knocking him out in the process) right after Archie beat #1 and #2 heavyweight contenders, two light heavyweight champions and the current middleweight champion in the 54-55 season?

I think it compares wonderfully well to Lewis being knocked spark out by a man who just 17 months earlier was sent crashing upside down head first through a table by Oleg Maskaev!!

"Maskaev caught Rahman with a right hand that knocked Rahman through the ropes, onto a ringside table, and eventually to the floor. A brief melee then ensued between fans and security personnel.
- This fight was given Honorable Mention for "Knockout of the Year" by The Ring Magazine."

Compare that with Archie Moore's 17 months before fighting Marciano...

 

https://m.youtube.com/?gl=GB#/watch?v=tQeqquW1ugo

Just 17 months later one of these guys knocks Lennox Lewis cold!

 

Archie Moore would not go 5 rounds with prime Lewis.

How about the Mavrovic and Billups fights how exactly did Lewis struggle with them?

 

Mavrovic fight was in sauna like conditions against an adamentium chinned fighter who wasn't scared to eat punches.

The only thing Lewis struggled with was being unable to knock the man senseless.

Almost any other man (that's including) Marciano would have been knocked senseless had they been on the receiving end of those punches.