Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janwalshs, Aug 2, 2010.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don’t consider myself to be an expert ( though I appreciate your patronizing sarcasm which I often employ myself . )
    Now HERE I will favor wilder.... Because unlike Tony Tucker, Deontay isn’t a “ safety first “ type fighter who does just enough to survive... Wilder will seek the KO... He has the power to hurt a much smaller man as well as the proven chin to take a punch from someone who can crack.
     
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  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm done arguing with certain people about marciano. Apparently he was fast, had great technique, timing, accuracy, devastating all time 1 punch ko power AND volume.

    When they realize how absurd that sounds and are backed into a corner they are forced to spin the narrative that rocky's opponents all had granite chins and/or defense+superb ring IQ to explain how they went toe to toe with rocky and took so many flush power punches without getting stopped early. Don't trust your eyes, ignore any questionable technique on film and overlook any brutal ko losses they suffered prior to facing rocky; they were all prime and as fit as a fiddle.

    -Revisionist hero rocky gets off the floor a few times, grits his teeth, pounds at the body, and "finds a way to win" with his unrivaled restlessness and unorthodox ability to score a come from behind ko in the 10th.

    -actual rocky gets a few good hits, maybe even rocks or drops a careless wilder, but at some point that nuclear right hand lands and rocky is down within 3 rounds. Wilder does not let up and its like a rain of hellstorm missiles. He just barely beats the count. In round 4 a bloodied and bruised rocky goes out on his shield getting hit flush by a devastating 1-2 that echoes throughout the arena and sends sweat, blood, and steak grease flying into the 3rd row. He protests but the ref has seen enough.
     
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  3. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Podcast EVERY SUNDAY youtube.com/lordlegender Full Member

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    This thread smells like Marciano hatred

    If you don't know what the center line is, you aren't an actual boxing trainer. My trainer beat the center line info into me

    Rocky has suffered from revisionism, not benefitted from it. The poster boy for revisionism would probably be someone like Charles, Greb, Steele or Holmes.

    Also Rocky would at most need to get off the canvas once, not even likely tbh, I think Rocky can outfight him early so long as he's in the mind to start fast

    Wilder isn't that good. He has great power and instincts and decent speed to match it. But Marciano is his own freak of nature, a freak of nature whom actually listened to his trainer (the great Goldman) and developed some semblance of skill, whether how rough or overrated it is isn't a debate I'm willing to make.

    You're literally saying that Marciano's feats of punching power aren't viable arguments. That's hilarious and pathetic

    Stop arguing with Choklab and speak to someone who can properly defend Marciano, how about? Nobody sane labels Marciano a fighter with "great technique", and though his speed has been underrated by revisionism and a few too many rewatches of his '54-'55, nobody would describe him as fast either. For his weight he wasn't that fast. And saying he has great accuracy is laughable

    What Marciano did have is devastating power which has caused noted 1 punch knockouts, you can read his boxrec and watch his fights. His power is good for early blowouts, and his power has a DISTURBING carryover to the late rounds. He has impeccable stamina. He has a solid jaw, his style required it. I don't care about the weight of his ranked opponents. He has heart and the intangibles. And most of all he has a surprising ability to adapt, doing so in his fights with LaStarza and Moore. Watch the film. And all of these traits carried him to a ranking of #3 on my all time Heavyweights list and #24 on my all time p4p list.

    What I've said above is fact, indisputable. You can whine about it if you want, say it's revisionism to call Marciano a fighter capable of adapting, but perhaps you should stop reading the same drivel repeated by the anti Rocky crowd and completely overgeneralizing, ignorant articles, and watch his fights

    A fighter's h2h abilities are what carry him to greatness. One cannot be an all time great without ability. Though you can definitely be a good h2h fighter with no accomplishments or greatness to speak of, goodness knows it's happened too many times in boxing.

    I believe Janitor has stated that it doesn't matter if your boxing didn't look good on camera, whether the descriptor you use is flashy, smooth, textbook, etc. It only matters if it reaps success. For if it reaps success then it must be doing something right. This is why boxing is much more of an art than a science. Rocky was the pinnacle of that idea. Wilder may prove himself to be that way as well. Many berate him for his lack of generalship but if he dominates the era then he must be regarded as an all time great, and as we know with greatness in boxing, it must mean that Wilder is also competent h2h.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  4. sauhund II

    sauhund II Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Predicable......cliche after cliche.......your "list" means jack to me.....for the 10000000000000000000 time tell me how Rocky beats Wilder....intangibles dont count.....show me the blue print, is he jabbing in etc etc......if you write the same drivel I just quoted then dont even bother to respond.
     
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  5. The Malibu Mauler

    The Malibu Mauler Podcast EVERY SUNDAY youtube.com/lordlegender Full Member

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    Cry harder
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The classic section stooges and arm chair experts who write articles and make YouTube videos disagree with this claim.

    I do agree that some people attempt to tear rocky down with the modernist fetish narrative but don't pretend like there aren't people who make absurd claims like rocky was a masterful boxer who ignore all his flaws. The ****ing writers of his time even said he was crude but you have posters putting fingers in their ears.

    "At most"? What in rocky's career indicates that he would "certainly" only get dropped once by wilder? The part where he got dropped by men who don't have half wilder's punching power in the first round? I believe wilder is top 3 in terms of sheer 1 punch power of all time and there is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise (re read that again before you get triggered, i didn't label him an ATG or a top 3 finisher or in terms of skill).

    Wilder has made more defenses of his title than rocky. It is very illogical to say he "isn't that good". There are less than 5 professional boxers in the history of the heavyweight division who have made more defenses than him. And you cant call me biased since this talking point was brought up by Rummy's corner who defends maeciano's championship and career.

    Finally a logical marciano fan who doesnt make me want to delete my account. I want to buy you a steak

    Ive formed my own opinions and im not getting them from the anti rocky crowd or poorly written articles. You might not have noticed but I am a very balanced poster. I call it like it is. I have publicly favored rocky over more than 20 former belt holders h2h, including several of whom were larger and taller than him. Don't lump me in with those people. I rate rocky's stamina, chin, and volume punching top 5 p4p and very high h2h.

    I HAVE seen his fights so i just laugh whenever people try to tell me what im looking at. You can tell at me till you're blue in the face, but tbe Don cokkel, Charles, lastarza, Walcott, and Mathews fights all completely shatter the idea of rocky being a devastating 1 punch ko artist. You dont go that many rounds with guys that size who lack durability landing flush power punch after flush power punch and not get labeled a volume puncher. Rocky's early ko's are mostly over no hopers, bums, and old men with losing records/tons of shopworn wear and tear. He doesn't have a single early KO or stoppage over a prime fighter or even a very durable game fighter. None. Zero.

    I don't believe in coincidences. The numbers speak for themselves. He was very carefully managed and since you think im just some hater who regurgitates info i am basing this notion off of the information in this book which i read cover to cover:

    This content is protected


    Well guided rocky along very very carefully. Out of him and Goldman's own mouths Rocky was unathletic, clumsy, and crude but packed a punch and was willing to work hard. I get why they did it: he had a mediocre amateur record and he got hit A LOT which is chronicled in said book. Even guys he was supposed to blast out became thrilling back and forth wars. Great for the crowd and selling tickets, bad for Rocky's health and career longevity. Don't take my word for it, it's all right there with direct quotes.

    My point was Rocky's style is all wrong for Wilder. The fact Wilder is a foot taller with long arms and heavier only makes it worse. If they were the same size id definitely favor rocky. But you seem to be under the illusion size is irrelevant and rocky's "intangibles" will simply cancel out the sheer leverage and snap wilder gets on his shots with his basketball frame. There's a reason people like joe Rogan are constantly comparing him to Tommy Hearns because that's basically what he is (as far as how he delivers power and maintains a "tall" fighting style). Even Teddy Atlas, long time detractors, gave im and praised Wilder's power and underrated cleverness:



    Wilder's opponents have to be perfect every minute of every round to avoid getting splattered. Wilder only has to be perfect for 1 minute of an entire fight and it's game over. What happens when his opponent is a much smaller, cruder guy who never fights perfect?
     
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  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales booted Full Member

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    Excellent post.
     
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  8. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Member Full Member

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    Got a right pair of tits on her this one...

    Do us a favour, wind your neck in love
     
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  9. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Member Full Member

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    What a load of ****
     
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  10. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Member Full Member

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    I wonder how sauhund feels with his fetishes exposed
     
  11. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Member Full Member

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    Simple really. Wilder dose nothing. For like 6..7 rounds. Marc attacks, and attacks and goes to the body, which noone has donet to Wilder, who's stamina is overrated as sjiy.

    The Rocky hits Wilder. Hard. Then Wilder goes bobies.

    The way you want to beat Wilder, is to fight him on the inside so he doesn't have the room to build momentum on his right, that is literally how Rocky fought. On the inside.

    Did you really need someone to spell it out for you? Mong ass
     
  12. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    I think Greb has always been highly regarded, his stock has certainly gone up, but not to the extent of Charles, Holmes etc.
     
  13. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    How could anyone with as many technical flaws as Rocky compete with a slick craftsman like Wilder? The way he did **** all for nearly all of the rounds against a shot to bits Fury, and then was too exhausted to even put him on the back foot in the last round, was marvelous.
     
  14. JackSilver

    JackSilver Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Choklab, magoo and unforgiven sounds like 3 name in some cheap 1930s gangster movie.
     
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  15. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thank you for your well constructed and thoughtful post.
     


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