Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janwalshs, Aug 2, 2010.


  1. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He used it quite a bit against Shavers (especially in the second fight). Shavers I think was only 6'. He landed some nice uppercuts against Mercer as well.

    He tried to employ it extensively against Tyson, but his ring rust and older reflexes betrayed him. The uppercut, plus his expert holding, would have made that fight at least a little longer. But he was well into decline by then anyway, had been on it for four years (easy).
     
  2. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I’ve seen all those fights except weaver. I’ve only recently rewatched Norton and Holyfield that’s why they come to mind. I will check it out thanks.
     
  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I would argue he always loses to Tyson or Frazier or Marciano. Just think they are all bad matchups for him. I hold Holmes up very high and non of this is to put him down . I would just favor those men.
     
  4. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Due to styles right?
     
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  5. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes. I don’t think Holmes would be able to handle all threes ability to pressure, power, and bypass the jab (even one as great as his). It’s been explained time and time again. You can’t throw a proper jab downward without leaving yourself open. You can try it in your living room and see for yourself. Tyson Marciano and Frazier knew this and made themselves smaller and all came in at different angles well. They knew how to pressure flgood boxers.
     
  6. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Valdes actually lost to light heavyweight Champion Harold Johnson 5'10 and 175 lbs and Archie Moore 2x
     
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  7. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Exactly

    Im trying to figure out how holmes uppercut would hit marciano who crouches low. Holmes himself being taller would have to crouch lower exposing himself even further
     
  8. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So I guess you think Valdes should have gotten the title shot before Moore even though he lost to Archie 2X during the time frame you speak in addition to Valdes losing to Harold Johnson who was actually a light heavyweight- and Valdes also lost Billy Gilliam and Bob Baker in 53 - Gilliam beaten by Charles and Baker Ko'd by Archie Moore and Satterfield - Everyone that was alive at the time knew Archie was the deserving one despite being Champion and not rated in Heavyweight he was first in line - Valdes was never impressive
     
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  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Not here for the fairy tales booted Full Member

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    Have you figured out how the shorter, slower Marciano would be able to land on Holmes from a crouch without Holmes beating him to the punch and avoiding Marciano's return fire?
     
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  10. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Same way he did with louis. Take the jab in the face if necessary. And walk him down

    Taking punches in the face some times is part of style

    As the saying goes

    " comes with the territory"
     
  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Don't you know? Marciano can do anything! Come on man keep up!
     
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  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Holmes had a great chin. But so did Marciano. Holmes was knocked out as an amateur though.

    #1 logical challenger Ezzard Charles was only 2 years older than Rocky, they both fought a great fight at a great pace. Has there been a faster paced 15 rounder at heavyweight?

    it depends who is landing the most punches. weight can tell against a fighter getting tired. Did Rocky gas though?

    This depends on the kinds of jabs being used. I have not seen much film evidence of A forward offensive jab from a fighter taking ring centre being that effective on Rockys crouching distance closing style. Did anyone take ring centre with Ricky? A defensive jab works against Rocky. But you are only talking one at a time with defensive jabs. Between Rockys leads and returns.

    Holmes was asked in 2009 who he thought his toughest opponent would be -
    Holmes- "Well, I'd say Marciano right now because he throws punches from anywhere, from anywhere, from any direction. And he was strong and he took punches. Only difference from now and then is they would've stopped the fight because he be cut, he be bleeding, you understand so they would've stopped the fight, so I'd be victorious. But because he's short and throws punches from left field, from right field, from center field, I mean he just throws and keep coming. He takes the licking and keeps coming."
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And this again is totally irrelevant. The plain fact is Valdes was the Ring's number one contender at the end of 1953 1954 and into 1955 until he was beaten by Moore, look it up! This is what we are discussing
    Taking punches in the face is something any trainer will tell you to try and avoid,it is not recommended as part of a winning strategy.If you are doing it too regularly it indicates your defence is leaky.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ]Holmes had a great chin. But so did Marciano. Holmes was knocked out as an amateur though.

    #1 logical challenger Ezzard Charles was only 2 years older than Rocky, they both fought a great fight at a great pace. Has there been a faster paced 15 rounder at heavyweight?

    it depends who is landing the most punches. weight can tell against a fighter getting tired. Did Rocky gas though?

    This depends on the kinds of jabs being used. I have not seen much film evidence of A forward offensive jab from a fighter taking ring centre being that effective on Rockys crouching distance closing style. Did anyone take ring centre with Ricky? A defensive jab works against Rocky. But you are only talking one at a time with defensive jabs. Between Rockys leads and returns.


    Holmes was asked in 2009 who he thought his toughest opponent would be -
    Holmes- "Well, I'd say Marciano right now because he throws punches from anywhere, from anywhere, from any direction. And he was strong and he took punches. Only difference from now and then is they would've stopped the fight because he be cut, he be bleeding, you understand so they would've stopped the fight, so I'd be victorious. But because he's short and throws punches from left field, from right field, from center field, I mean he just throws and keep coming. He takes the licking and keeps coming."[/QUOTE]
    Holmes v Norton for one was faster paced. Ali v Norton too.
    Holmes is right Marciano's against Simmons ,and Charles1 would be stopped today with his opponents winning by tko .
    Marciano has to come up out of that crouch to reach Larry;s head and when he does Holmes faster, ,longer, more straighter ,and more accurate right hand finds his head first.Rocky was fighting old men, its natural his stamina would be suprrior to theirs ,and his legs would hold up longer.
    Holmes chin is tried and tested against modern big punching heavyweights such as Witherspoon,Norton,Shavers,Cooney, Marciano's never was.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Louis was a 37 years old washed up, one armed fighter boxing to pay off his IRS debt and he marked Marciano up badly.
    A younger, bigger ,stronger,fresher ,faster Holmes would turn Marciano's face into Ketchup, and Larry has a very fast right hand to keep him honest ,which at that stage Louis did not possess! Larry also has the uppercut for when Marciano gets close.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020


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