Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Wrong! Williams was born June 30 1933. He fought Satterfield on June 22, 1954. So yes he was 20 years as McVey correctly stated. It's you distorting the facts to try to make it seem as if Williams wasn't as green as many would have you think. Putting this much weight on a loss a fighter had at 20 years old is bad enough. But deliberately distorting the facts to suit your agenda is quite simply pathetic.

 

I think it’s fair to take it up with you as you posted it. Has nothing to do with my narrative that you posted articles about a man before he was champion to claim he was a journeyman. Most writers I’m sure changes their opinion after. That being said writers are often critical of current contenders and champions that is nothing new. Would you deny that?

 

Yeah he knows it. As usual he has painted himself into a corner just like the rest of them.

These guys are calling world champions like Walcott journeymen, Rex Layne, who Nat Fleischer rated as possible future champion, a four round bum.... whilst at the same time, in the face of obvious overwhelming facts, refusing to accept Cleveland Williams wasn’t really that good.... all because they like the look of him!

 

Those quotes are from both before and after he won the championship.

Journeyman is an honorable description, a toiler, an operator who is skilled, just not one anointed by talent or genius for greatness.

 

I call that the Bruno effect.

Certain people are obsessed with size and physique, and if a fighter matches their expectations in this regard, it doesn't seem to matter if he lost to their little sister!

 

Walcott was never a second rater at that time, R.G Lynch was a baseball writer. As Sports Editor he was filling in to cover boxing. He probably knew less about boxing than a fan would have. And certainly would have egg on his face calling Walcott a journeyman at that time in light of what Walcott then went on to achieve.

 

Do you want me to keep posting all the other writers who were saying the same thing?

 

He does because you build him up as a powerhouse and were saying Layne got beat by a light heavy but it was Big Cat and Nino that lost to a Light heavy and Big Cat was unconscious for 10 minutes -WTF is wrong with you - look at your posts

 

He was 6 days short of his 21st birthday but still had 34 fights as a pro - he got KTFO by a light heavyweight for 10 minutes before they could wake him - Big Cat was 33-1 - flattened by the same guy Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and Rex Layne KO'd a 5'10 178 lb Bob Satterfield - Wake up to the facts - however they may not suit your agenda

 

I don't want to waste too much time because I could stay here all day and answer but let me take Shavers I saw him KO Jimmy Ellis in 1 round - He also KO'd Ken Norton and Jimmy Young - Roy Williams and Henry Clark
Lyle Larry Middleton and Earnie Shavers- but I also seen Lyle get beat up by Jerry Quarry in MSG
Mac Foster got ruined by Quarry who was supposed to be his first contender after winning 24 in a row by KO over guys like Big Cat Williams 2x and Jack O'Halloran, Roger Russell, Thad Spencer who were all past their best so Mac Foster like Big Cat never proved power vs the better fighters but the rest of the list

As far as one punch I was answering your quote when talking about Layne it was you who brought up that absurdity - As far as the list every one of those guys from Dempsey to Tyson were punchers - Big Cat had the look but never proved it in the ring

 

Yeah, I agree. The Bruno effect is a very real and contagious phenomena.

But Cleveland Williams has a pedestal all of his own. At least folks can accept when bruno lost. They might get carried away with Franks muscles but they know all about how he got knocked out legitimately by Bonecrusher and Tyson etc.

With Williams his crushing defeats by Sonny are somehow seen as some kind of endorsement of his power! .

the astonishing annihilation at the hands of lightheavyweight Bob Satterfeild is excused out of hand. and every other time he lost is blamed on police gun fire.

Facts are not allowed to get in the way of them swooning over the big Cat. It is a unique case among the Bruno effect.

 

There is no point discussing with people who are shown the blue sky and still insist it is green.

 

I can see why Walcott would have been viewed as a journeyman at certain points in his career just as Jim Braddock was..... The reality however is that they did not remain that way their ENTIRE careers and were both world heavyweight champions..

 

And again, some of the quotes I provided were post Louis and during his reign.

A cat does not change its stripes after 17 years in the business of bruising. I know y'all have a love affair with the alleged high science of Joe's meaningless footwork but the fact remains he was only marginally effective at the highest level, even when that level retreated to his abilities.

 

I’m not “ in love” with anything. Just stating a fact. He had parts of his career where he was very good and others where he wasn’t.