Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Charles was brilliant in that fight. And just all wrong at that time for Joe Louis. It is amazing how bad a good fighter can look against a guy who has his number. Think of Tyson versus Douglas.

Even so, Louis did close Ezzards eye and remained dangerous enough throughout for Charles to know not to take any chances.

Louis was a little heavy. I think he was overconfident after beating up Pat Valentino easier than Charles had a little earlier. If you watch Charles versus Valentino then watch Louis against Valentino you won’t get any sense that Louis was shot or ripe for a terrible beating.

Sometimes you just don’t know until the fight.

But that Louis, buckled down, got lighter, went on from that and impressed against Savold and in the filmed fight against Cesar Brion a young and good fighter Louis was able to handle as well as Charles did after the shellacking he took from Charles and it points to Joe not being absolutely finished at contender level. Certainly Louis was finished as a champion. Or as the Brown Bomber. Not as a decent contender.

 

No need.

 

I will tell you something that really put's Marciano's title reign into perspective.

The lat three times that the two most highly rated heavyweights in the world face off were 2014, 2013, and 2003!

Marciano thought nothing of doing this twice in the same year!

 

Foreman had a brilliant comeback and you are correct .. He never even considered a Bowe , a Lewis , even a Ruddock or a Bruno .. Foreman fought Holyfield, Morrison, Moore and a bunch of assorted cherry picked guys .. George was a brilliant marketer and entertainer.

 

I sympathize with a lot of this sentiment. But he fought Holy in his prime, who was as good or damn close to any of the above names in their prime imo. And he had nothing to be ashamed of at the end of it, neither did Holmes. Foreman probably did adroitly avoid Steward-era Lewis and probably Bowe early on...but why risk losing the chance at a title when you don't have to? Moorer had beaten Holyfield and was a champion both in that division and light heavy before that.

So yes, Foreman padded his record, and the two most dangerous fighters he probably maneuvered out of. But he still fought some really good fighters in his comeback, one being certifiably a top five ATG imo. Foreman's accomplishment can't be diminished in light of his smart way of going about it. Good for him, he wasn't stupid.

 

Because at 44 after 10 years retirement he was taking it slow?
Want to speculate whom a 44 years old Louis, coming out of 10 years retirement would have fought? FFS!

 

No Need= There are none.

 

When was the last time they were 39/40, and 38 years old?

 

Savold was through,as used up as Louis.
When he came back Louis was essentially a one armed fighter relying on his jab.He said it himself and so did the reporters who sat ringside and watched his ten comeback fights.
He fought a collection of non threatening ,light punching guys, until he got his IRS payday against RM, getting the lions share of the gate.
In his autobiography he stated that in his prime he thought he would have stopped Charles inside 7 rounds. Louis quit because he knew he didn't have it anymore and he said so.
He resumed fighting because he was broke , he still had his name but not half his ability. That he got by fringe contenders and journeymen is a testament to how good he had been in his prime, not how good he remained,he was fighting from memory. There is only one reason for being in denial about the remnants of Louis' once fantastic ability and that is to build up a certain other fighter who actually needs no fairy tale BS tacked retrospectively onto his career .It's the same reason average contenders such as Layne and Lastarza are hyped up beyond there actual abilities on this forum.It's so blatantly apparent it shouldn't need to be mentioned.
ps Valentino was blind in one eye.

 

That’s what I am saying too. He remained good enough to beat everyone but the champions. He was still beating Clarence Henry, Elmer Ray, Henry Hall, Johnny Shkor, Curtis Shepherd, Billy Gillium, Pat Valentino and Nino Valdes as well as Bivins, Agramante, and Brion who were all younger than him. Sure he wasn’t the Bomber anymore. But he was a legitimate top contender.

Joe Louis comeback Resume is better than Cleveland Williams entire career.

 

Pretty recently!

 

You're actually going to pretend that Louis beat Clarence Henry during his comeback. He boxed a four-round exhibition with Henry - at the time an unranked novice with a modest 11-1-1 record.

Here's the Associated Press report of this great triumph:

Joe Louis boxed four easy rounds tonight in Wilmington Bowl with Clarence Henry, Los Angeles negro heavyweight.

Louis, weighing about 223, appeared sluggish and threw little but light lefts. Henry, 188, was aggressive only in spurts and peppered Joe's nose with occasional lefts. Needless to say, no one was hurt.

 

No. My point is made, I ( respectfully ) know how you roll and have zero interest going round and round with you on this.

 

What’s the average age of an AJ opponent? Lol when looked through that perspective Marcianos opponents ages on average is rather young. Especially compared to today.

 

A quick look at Wilder's last opponent and most credible opponent Ortiz is listed at 40 -yet there was an article stating he was older from Cuban sources- Breazeale 33 -Stiverne 38 - Arreola was 35 but only won 2 of his last 6 fights

AJ is fighting Pulev next - Pulevs 38 - Povetkin was 38? Wlad was 41