Marciano-I Just Don't Understand It

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janwalshs, Aug 2, 2010.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,811
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    A post which features logic,clarity,and objective analysis, I haven't the patience to go down this road with the troll.
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,811
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Hopefully not long! I didnt originaly care one way or the other but now ,its like finding a fly in your ice cream!
     
    BlackCloud likes this.
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,627
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    Isn’t this supposed to be the classic forum? Where fans of fighters from the classic age can sensibly make rational points like “I think Marciano beat a legitimate contender in an important fight who was around the same kind of weight as Wilder was when he drew with Fury after knocking Tyson down twice”?
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,627
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    Apart from 213 3/4lbs lbs Louis in which fight did Marciano push back men of Wilder's weight? I would say 212lb wilder who decked Tyson Fury twice certainly qualifies!
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    42,770
    12,964
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 11, 2005
    How about the 231 Wilder when Fury finally decided to use his size advantage at 273? How did that work out?
     
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,324
    3,497
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 15, 2018
    Any rational minded person would tell you Wilders weight had zero to do with the outcome of that fight. People are obsessed with weight. Wilder was always an overrated fighter whom never should have even been where he was. Result of an extremely poor HW era. Tyson fought him the right way and was even more dominant then last time. Had wilder taken his craft seriously years ago he would be a lot better fighter today because he had the physical gifts.
     
    Brockton Rock and choklab like this.
  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,365
    4,877
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 6, 2017
    Is that the best version of wilder to accurately gauge what his size is? No. So this is a dumb question. Same thing for Louis.

    Grammatically, this is horrible. Logically, it's false. Wilder has been in way more fights than ortiz and fury. Do you mean his best performances? He beat stiverne who was the wbc champion and made it look easy winning every round. It is an underrated performance and he did so basically with his jab, which seems to irk people who think all he does is flail around. Wilder also KO'd brezeale in round 1 and he was ranked #1. I would have expected a guy like you who makes a big deal out of rankings would give wilder his props here.

    So he has Ortiz 2x, stiverne 2x, brezeale. Throw in Szpilka Washington and arreola and he has an ok but not good or great resume. The rest of his resume is definitely up for criticism.


    Who gives a ****. Louis could have been on a 100 ko streak and it wouldn't change the fact 213 is NOT his usual weight so it's cherry picking if we're discussing his actual size. Stop playing games.

    Again I am not questioning Joe's ranking. Im questioning your silly attempts to pretend like Joe was a natural 213 pounder and comparable in size to wilder.

    Point flew right over your head as usual. It wasn't about his excuse, the point was that him overtraining was the reason for his low weight. It further makes your claim about Louis being bigger look stupid.

    When I was in the hospital i lost around 10 lbs and got around 184. Im 6'1 with a 78' reach. Does that mean I was "smaller" than a guy who is 5'9 and weighed 160 the entire year but for one week he pigged out on burgers and cake and weighed 187?

    Do I have to hold hold your hand throughout the conversation so you don't get lost? Point is he never weighed that low before or after. It was an anomaly. But go ahead and keep pretending like this isn't the case. Give me a reason to ignore you.

    There is no ****ing difference. You are cherry picking the lowest weight of wilder and the highest weight of Louis. We arent as dumb as you think we are. This is a clearly dishonest attempt on your part but you're pretending like you can't see the flaw in this idiotic argument.

    Your agenda and dishonesty are the only things that gets exposed. You think we haven't noticed these are the ONLY discussions you reply to? Or that you will refurbish your same arguments over and over?
     
    BlackCloud and swagdelfadeel like this.
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    42,770
    12,964
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 11, 2005
    Good Lord! Do you even listen to people who are in the profession?

    Why do you think Fury came in at 273?
     
    Clean & Crisp likes this.
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,627
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    24,627
    4,084
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 31, 2009
    no I said weight. to date the best result on Wilders record is a draw with the current champion. He almost knocked Fury out.

    not any that count. He ignored genuine contenders like Dillon Whyte or Joseph Parker.

    Stiverne only ended up with a belt because Fury vacated it. There is nothing on his record to show stiverne was even a good fighter. Just another unwarranted selection for a vacant belt so far as I remember. It was the first fight for Arreola in 14 months. Stiverne had not fought in just over a year. And that was who fought for a vacant title? The value was worthless. A paper champion.

    who? What is Breazeales best win? What ring magazine rated guy did he ever beat?

    joe Louis was winning important fights around that weight.

    joe Louis had been heavier than 212 so It is not entirely honest to say that 213 was his highest weight. I don’t know why the weight is so important to you guys. This has gone on for pages and I was only ever making a small point in the first place. It so happens that These are weights that come from important fights. Sure Wilder was heavier and Louis was lighter at other times. It doesn’t change the point that can be made in the legitimate example I used. Cherry picking or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  11. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,324
    3,497
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 15, 2018
    Do even listen to people in the profession? What has Ali, Moore, Louis, Foreman, Tyson, etc had to say about Marciano? But I’m supposed to take your opinion. Wilder lost because he can’t box period. He could of came in at 200 or 250
    It didn’t matter.
     
    Brockton Rock and choklab like this.
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,811
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    If your point that because Wilder came in at 212 3/4lbs for the first Fury fight was valid,[and it isn't,] and that it proves Marciano ,who beat a used up 37 years old Louis could handle him,let us address certain other facts.
    1.Wilder was completely schooled in that fight.
    2.That was the lowest weight Wilder had been since his debut fight ten years earlier.
    3.For his pro debut Louis scaled181lbs, same day weigh- in.
    4.For his pro debut Wilder scaled 207 3/4lbs, previous day weigh -in .
    5.Everyone knows Louis optimum weight was under 210lbs.
    6. Everyone knows Wilders' optimum weight is appreciably more ,he is 6'7" FFS!
    You've got a group of posters on your case because of the slanted half truths you spout.
    You contribute nothing here but acrimony and when exposed you play the injured innocent.
    ie" Everyone is wrong and I am right,they are all picking on me"
    It's a weary and tired act that's getting more weary and tired by the minute.
    I suggest you change the record ,or change forums .
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,365
    4,877
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 6, 2017
    A draw is not better than a win. Are You high?

    This is a lie. Whyte was offered an eliminator by the wbc to fight Ortiz and he refused. Parker never called out wilder or sent him a contract.

    OMG Choke, the wbc belt was vacant after VITALI retired, not Fury.

    Nah we're not about to play this game. You will write 70 paragraph essays defending don cokkels ranking. Brezeale was ranked #1 and wilder KO'd him in 1. Don't be a hypocrite.

    Once again ignoring the point that he only weighed that much ONCE.

    It does change the point you're making because again, one could make the silly claim jumbo could hang with tua since Frazier was "the same size" as tua. Both Louis and Frazier were aging ex champions looking for a payday ballooning up in weight heavier than they were at any point in their career. It's not functional weight or strength. So to use an aging fat desperate for money joe Louis as proof marciano could hang with super heavyweights is a stupid talking point to begin with.

    Again, if I could outmuscle and wrestle a man whose been 30 lbs lighter than me for the past 2 years and he pigs out on burgers to gain 30 lbs in a few months, would he suddenly have the strength to outmuscle me?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
    swagdelfadeel, BlackCloud and mcvey like this.
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    90,220
    8,286
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 21, 2007
    No. He also defeated #3 contender Bermane Stiverne.

    I can't imagine quite how hard you would cream yourself if someone left off a top contender Marciano beat, but never mind. This example of you being factually wrong in a given direction yet again is probably just splitting hairs.
     
    swagdelfadeel and JohnThomas1 like this.
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    90,220
    8,286
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 21, 2007
    That's an outrageous statement IMO. I'm genuinely baffled by it.

    Fury's size had an enormous impact on Wilder in the fight I watched. Unless you are talking about the first fight in which, i'm not sure. I'd need to look again.

    EDIT: Sorry - I mis -read what you wrote. I still disagree a bit because maybe Wilder's fatigue was exacerbated by the heavier weight - i'm never convinced by a new seeming weight for a huge fight. But I don't think what you said is outrageous or anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020