Marciano in other eras with out the respectfull champs.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Dempsey1238, Feb 13, 2010.


  1. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I seen some post were people claim that Holmes, Ali, Dempsey would be champs in any other era, and when they get to Marciano, they say they dont see Rocky being Champ in later or early eras.

    If we took out the top dog of the divsion, how would Rocky fair in your option.

    Me, myslef belives that one ATG vs other ATG most often is 50 50 either way in my book, and we can talk about Marciano vs Holmes or Louis all day, but how will Rocky do against the men that these legends beat to become legends.

    We start with the early 1980's in Holmes era. Rocky Marciano is getting his first title shot against Ken Norton and ends with the Spinks bouts.

    Well Rocky Marciano repeat his 49-0 record?? Or will Smith, Witherspood, Cooney and the rest of this 1980's bunch be too big for Marciano?? Not to mention he has a bout with the legend Ali shortly after beating Norton,(If he gets past that bout)

    I think Rocky Marciano would be the champ, and I also belive he will repeat his record, retiring at 49-0 after beating Spinks. No comeback when Tyson comes ripping though the divsion in the late 80's.
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Rocky would do verry well in the 80s due to his training habits.

    I don't think that he would go 49-0 due to the politics of the day.
     
  3. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So a lost some were? Holmes was able to get to 48-0.

    Dont think Spinks would be the one to do it.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    marciano had the mindset of a winner just as holmes did. a ruthless winner with that discipline would rise to the top in ANY era. They just find a way. there is never room for too many guys like that at anyone time but they stand out when they come along.
     
  5. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He would beat all of those fighters...I just wonder if born in that era would have the same training discipline...but He had too much for that bunch of puffed up fighters and although Smith was mucled, he was lacking in the heart depo
     
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    it wouldnt be easy. a world class guy is a world class guy in any era too. rock would find a way as would all special champs.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Having names like Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis and Archie Moore, certainly does Marciano's record a great deal of good, even if some of those guys were well past their primes and still managed to give him a fair amount of trouble...

    Had Rocky been fighting in the 1980's, he wouldn't have had the luxury of facing quite as many hall of famers who were past it, unless he met perhaps Norton and Ali when they were basically finished... In order to compile the same 49-0 record, he would have some easy pickings against the same fighters that Holmes fought, but not all those fights would have been easy, especially given his limitations in size.... While Lucien Rodriguez, Leon Spinks and an ancient Muhammad Ali would have been easy fights, others like Tim Witherspoon, Gerry Cooney and Bonecrusher Smith would have been dangerous match-ups....
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    the hall of famers rock met did benefit his career but they were not "well past their best" wallcot was at the pinicle of his career (a champ) and charles only two years older than rock and on excelent form. Moore was on his best run. Louis as old as he was had enough to beat bivins a belt holder in any recent era. johny shkor was as big as bonecrusher and he held his own aginst bivins, baksi and kod mauriello.
    Cooney had potential but was green. witherspoon, how ever talented could not shine enough in his own era to guarantee results against any proven champs from another era. Neither would be any more dangerous than guys rock did fight.
     
  9. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    If Marvis Frazier could beat Bonecrusher, I'm sure Rocky could. Don't think Cooney has the durability to beat Marciano either. Although, it's a test I suppose.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Marciano was always going to have a short prime and in the 80s he would have been at about 35 fights when nature took its toll.

    Holmes had a style better suited to longevity.

    Marciano's 49-0 is partly an artefact of him being able to organise top fights in close sucession.
     
  11. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    Marciano would walk through fire to get a victory so his heart can't be questioned when matched with the greats. I think a good boxer like Holmes or Ali beats him by a split decision. Who knows?
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Not the Ali of that era, for sure.
     
  13. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's difficult to say because we never saw Marciano against a 6'3+, 210+ lb prime contender. He fought old Louis, who was 200 lbs in his prime, and some clubfighters who had size but few with any talent.

    I'm not saying he wouldn't beat the likes of Bonecrusher Smith, Cooney, Witherspoon but there's a possibility that after fighting that many opponents who had a size advantage over him, one would eventually get the better of him.
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    marciano was as big as frazier. in the 1980s hed be 210-215 easy. louis wasnt louis when rocky beat him but his atributes at that time match that of a good world class prime contender if not the phenomanon of his youth. a good sized heavy who was still beating rated guys and #1 contender. rock coped with louis size and strength easily and phiscaly louis was strong. i wouldnt call shkor a club fighter. johny was a big draw in boston.
     
  15. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The fact is that he weighed between 180 and 190 pounds. That was the weight he fought best at. If he fought better at 210 then he would've fought at 210. Any added weight would have likely taken away from his great stamina which was one of his best attributes and the reason why he'd whip many bigger heavies.

    Physically Louis wasn't very strong at that point of his career. A lot of fighters pushed him back during his comeback, not just Rocky. All the signs of slipping were there to be seen even before Marciano KO'd him out of the ring.

    Johnny Shkor was a big guy but not an impressive fighter.

    From BoxRec.com (not the best source):

    "Shkor was big and strong, and his mauling tactics were worrisome to Marciano for four rounds. Johnny stayed at close quarters and leaned on his opponent, trying to tire him out. Even so, Rocky did enough punching to win the first three rounds and the fourth was even. Marciano began to find the range in the fifth and knocked Shkor down with a left hook and a right to the eye just before the bell. Marciano came out in the sixth throwing bombs and Shkor was down for three nine-counts before the fight was stopped. Rocky suffered a left eyelid cut in the first round which his handlers closed, but Shkor opened it in the third and it bled freely after that. The attendance was 6072 and the gross gate was $12,081."

    Jersey Joe Walcott had KO'd Shkor in one previous to this bout.

    How would Rocky do against a naturally 6'3+, 220 lb man with a near 80 inch reach? I think it's somewhat telling that between two options, Marciano chose to fight former light heavyweight Don Cockell as his comeback opponent after the nose injury instead of 6'3, 210+ lb 80" reach Nino Valdes who was known for his jab.