Marciano of the Moore fight vs Foreman of the briggs fight

Exactly, MORRISON did those things that he didnt display before. You, sir, are making a fallacy in claiming rocky could.

Come on dawg you know that isnt particulalry fast. Hes circling but hes flat footed--and against a past it flat footed louis. At that speed george would have all kinds of openings.

Not really what i meant when i said "fighting backing up". What chris byrd, ali, roy jones, leanard etc do is fighting while taking steps back. Marciano and lane were pretty much having a close quarters in fight and then rocky set up text book overhand right--while staying in the pocket. Its not like he was continuously backing up and layne was pursuing him before rocky set up the blow.

1-of course morrison's reah made a difference! His arms were only 2' shorter tham foremans (76-78). This makes your comparison even worse. All duke and rocky had in common were their power and lighter skin. They were completely different. Rockys arms were nearly a foot shorter.

2-rocky being able to feint is impressive, ill grant that. He still is going to have a hell of a hill to climb neutralizing foremans jab. Which was not only long, but powerful (*pause*).

 

But he is Rocky Marciano (White basically means he is white so apparently that makes him better) I agree Marciano would get slaughter. Because George Foreman didn't knock out Briggs the same Briggs who got battered 12 years later when he was out of shape and past his prime against Vitali Klistchko and still wouldn't go down, that means he couldn't knock out a 185 pound Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano are clearly the most idiotic, simple minded, worthless boxing fans on this planet . I thought Mike Tyson and Floyd Mayweather's fans were bad. But Marciano fans take the cake.

Foreman at 50 would still knock Marciano out in 1 round.

 

It's not a fallacy to suggest that Foreman's concrete feet enables men to fight differently against him than they do other opponents. Morrison proves that a career swarmer could adapt strategically when presented with such a sloth. Morrison's technique was hardly advanced, he still used lots of traditional bobbing and weaving to evade Big George.

The video is slowed down. You asked for footage of lateral movement.

There are no openings, Marciano moves out of range and 49 year old Foreman is far slower than either Maricano or 37 year old Louis.

Morrison did nothing of the sort against Foreman, why should Marciano. Maricano did back up against Layne and catch him with a counter right as he stepped in. I fulfilled my obligation.

I don't think you understand how wing span is measured...even in the rare events it's measured correctly.
Say, the wing span measurements are right.
We have 67 wing span against 76 wing span.
That's 9 inches split between two arms and shoulders.
Assuming they have equal back width..though Morrison was likely wider given his height.
You are looking at a difference of actual arm length no more than 4 inches tops.

For a man to have arms a full foot longer than Marciano, he would have to be of equal shoulder width and hand size with a wing span no smaller than 91 inches.

A prime Foreman jab..sure. But the 49 year old that struggling to get off punches against Briggs? Nah.

 

This would be a pretty great fight.
I favor Rocky, but Foreman could take him out.

 

Who mentioned roughing up?

 

Foreman has a ram rod jab but it was one of the slowest jabs of any lineal HW champion in history.

Marciano crouches, slips inside and pops off the overhand right.

Foreman won't exchange up close, he'll take the shots, push Rocky back and try again behind the jab.

Foreman does not have the speed to keep Rocky at range and whilst he does have power he only made it count once in his comeback.

Foreman proved the evolution of boxing is over stated, he did not prove he could beat Marciano.

 

No Morrison proved that HE could adapt.

Of course its a fallacy. Its a non sequitur. It doesnt follow that morrison displaying unusual amounts of ring generalship and defense for the first time in his career means Marciano (a completely different boxer) would be able to do so. Especially because Marciano never set a precedence for that or employed a similar strategy in his own history. I cannot make this any more clear.

If Rocky never actually did it, i do not care what some other boxer was able to do. Maybe Morrison hires a new coach for that one night only. Maybe Morrison always had the talent but never bothered to use it because he could get by with power. It doesnt matter for this discussion.

1-why show me slowed down footage if my point was that hed need to have quick feet AND good lateral movement? How can i properly judge this? Edited or not rocky is fighting flat footed which can be a death sentence against foreman.

2-By Marcianos own admission, he had to take Joes jabs for 8 rounds before he was finally able to put joe away. A 37 year old joe, who was shorter, had less reach, and by this point of his career didnt hit anywhere near as hard as foreman, kept Rocky at bay for 8 rounds.

Youve sort of written yourself into a corner with this "evidence".

And before you use the "foreman was slower" cop out, even in his last fight where he was robbed he landed many strong jabs on briggs.

Layne wasnt half the fighter Foreman was tho. He was also shorter and didnt have anywhere near the same power. Rocky lands that and then what? It bounces off Foremans rock head and he proceeds to walk marciano into a corner and club him?

Unless you think marciano hits harder than briggs, morrison, c00ney, etc and that one punch would end it...? Surely you arent that silly?

Ive seen evert foreman fight on youtube and he is consistently listed as having a reach in the 78-80' range. Marciano in every single piece of footage, every article and biography ive seen consistently points out how incredibly short his arms are even for his own era.

Lets not kid ourselves nitpicking over numbers when they are not only reliable, its obvious based on photos and film marciano will have a major disadvantage in this area.

Again, numbers dont lie:

Agains briggs Foreman landed 284 of 388 punches. Briggs landed 223 of 494. Struggling to get off you say? He landed 60 more punches than a man half his age.

Against shulz Foreman landed 249 of 543 punches. Schulz landed 229 of 482.

Against holyfidld he landed 54% of his jabs. Holyfield only landed 1% more than him.

So please stop this nonsense about foreman not being able to land a jab on a short flat footed target like marciano.

...Unless of course you think Marciano not only hit harder than anyone foreman fought, he was a defensive wizard who would slip and dodge his jab with ease even though far superior technicians like holyfield couldnt get away from it.

 

Who did 50 year old Foreman ever knock out in 1 round?

 

Complete bs. See my post above, numbers dont lie. Foreman landed his jabs on several fighters who were quicker and more technically sound than rocky. You think rocky is faster than a prime holyfield?

...or he runs into some looping hooks and crashes to the canvas like frazier, cooper, and qawi.

Foreman doesnt hesitate to exchange. He did so against lyle and against holyfield, and stewart, have you even seen the guy fight?

You are talking out of your rectum. You dont need speed to keep a flat footed, short swarmer at bay. You need power and reach. Foreman had both.

Foreman has literally evert advantage imaginable, and since were using the older one evem stamina wont be an issue.

Rocky has done nothing to suggest he could beat a guy who is 5' taller, 70 lbs heavier, 13' reach advantage and way more power. Rocky made a career out of koing bums and has been ex champs and journeymen.

Foreman koed guys half his age who were all larger and heavier than marciano. He beat several fighters similar to him including the great joe frazier. He nearly outjabbed a PRIME Holyfield and went 12 gruelling rounds.

 

I don't think he's quicker than Holyfield.

Minimal chance of a hook landing on Rocky.

I've seen a lot of Foreman yes.

Of course you need speed.

Foreman would be just another has been champ he beat then.

He did not outjab Holy.

 

Just try to forget for a second that this old man is called George Foreman.

Forget his previous career, and judge him solely on his fights since his comeback in 87.

Let’s call him George Smith here.

How impressive does George Smith's record against world class opposition look?

Is there anything in George Smith's record that would seriously make you think that he was likely to beat Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier, or any other prime all time great?

I think that the answer to the latter question is a resounding no.

 

JANITOR

Janitor takes out the trash, and throws it in the compactor

 

That's interesting.

On paper, perhaps not.
But his KO over Cooney was spectacular. I think that performance, amongst others, carry a lot of weight.

 

I could imagine you saying something like the following:

"This George Smith is a big slow heavyweight with a devastating punch, and a solid set of whiskers, but he is somewhat limited.

He has proven himself to be devastating against B grade opposition, but he generally loses when he steps up in class.

Even so, we have to give him credit for defeating Michael Moorer to win the lineal title, though he might have been lucky to get a title shot against a small champion who lacked durability".

 

I agree with this, to beat Big G even at this time in his career would still take above average boxing skills and decent size. Meaning a size over 200 lbs. a 5'10'' and 190 lbs fighter who's only gear was forward and really no defensive skills wouldnt last long, even against George at 50.