Marciano of the Moore fight vs Foreman of the briggs fight

Mongoose, just keep mugging yourself, its like watching car crash .lol

 

The underlined is as near as you'll ever get to admitting you were wrong!
You're interpretation of why he quit is not necessarily the right one ,he was getting punched around as Foreman turned up the heat.

 

Briggs had moments where he would dance/run around the ring, but he would gas out immediately and become the most open target in history. This is just pathetic and he's lucky Foreman was arm punching.

[url]https://makeagif.com/5NRnZf[/url]

Briggs getting walked down and caught with looping swings from a 49 year old man. And that shoulder roll attempt that always led to him eating right hands anyway....it would spell his doom against Lewis and get him nearly killed against Vitali years later.


I rewatched Marciano and Moore recently, and what I noticed was after Maricano got rocked he went into a very defensive mode, and went a full minute without throwing much of anything back and was concentrating on making Moore miss and buying time.

[url]https://makeagif.com/i/moueY6[/url]

That is some damn good head movement from anyone, that you really don't see much of today except in so called "Defensive Specialists" Pacman never moved his head that well for instance.

 

I hadn't watched much Marciano for ages. Watching him again made the following stand out for me:

1) His defense was actually really good. Nevermind the guys that say he's an open target. By no means is he.
2) He has yet to discover the jab
3) He seems a lot smaller than I remember him
4) He threw the kitchen sink into every shot. Yes it made him look clumsy, but I can well believe that he could hurt anybody with those punches. He's trading off landing a lot of crisper punches for landing the bludgeon every now and again. After a while the awkwardness settles into a sort of rythmn and what becomes apparent is that he is forcing the opponent to react to what he is doing all the time and not really letting them get their own game into gear.

What this means is that in a hypothetical Foreman matchup, he'd have to come in low, to avoid the jab, and because George was so big and slow, he'd likely land a much higher percentage of shots than usual. To compensate, Foreman was extremely durable, so, swings and roundabouts. I think Rocky would have to be careful not to get (a) leaned on or (b) caught by Foreman's big shots. Yes, George was slow, but he could still hit hard enough to switch off the lights.

 

Marciano would win this scenario more often than not, Foreman has a chance of scoring a one punch knockout but he rarely did that even in his prime.

 

How am i making up arguments? You and the other morons on this thread made those exact arguments. Do you need me to go through all 8 pages and put them in bold?

How do i desperately want to have the last word if im saying "im done with this argument" lmao. Im recognizing this thread is going nowhere you can post whatever you want.

You are literally saying the same crap over and over.

-It doesnt matter what tommy could do no matter how many times you repeat. Rocky didnt fight that way, thats not my opinion its a fact

-rocky had a 67' reach, not my opinion, fact

-rocky never won a fight backing up for all 12 rounds. He never won a fight using lateral movement start to finish. He never won a fight using his jab and he couldnt get past a washed up joe louis jab for 8 rounds. Facts.

-rocky was often crude, missed several punchs even when he had a guy hurt (as seen against moore) and was open to counters. Facts.

-rocky bled easily and was dropped within the first two rounds by an old light heavy and an old guy under 200 lbs. Facts.

-foreman is bigger, stronger, hit harder, had a better chin, and weighed at least 60 lbs more than rocky did. Facts.

The only advantage rocky has is workrate and cardio but that would be nullified by all the glaringly obvious advantages foreman has even at 50. I would be shocked if he made it past the 5th round.

When you are ready to get your head out your ass and accept facts, actual fight footage, stats, and boxing history then we can continue our debate. But if youre going to keep using a fan fiction version of rocky and re write history then im done. I took the time to tear your stupid arguments apart even though they were very illogical and very reaching.

 

1) Rocky didn't back up. He liked to fight up close. He didn't use lateral movement but did use considerable upper body movement and a low crouch to make himself hard to hit. I actually wonder how easy it would be for Foreman to bend over his gut all night to try and jab Marciano coming in.
2) Old Louis jab > old Foreman jab
3) Foreman was older, fatter, slower and weighed at least 35 lbs more blubber than Rocky. Facts. One could make the same argument you make with respect to Butterbean, fyi
4) I think Foreman would make it to the end. Then there would be a commission of enquiry into the brutality of boxing and rivers of tears would be cried about the kindly old pastor put into hospital by that violent eyetie.

 

1-but thats exactly why rocky would have such a hard time. Using a come forward aggressive style plays right into george's hands. If a guy is slower than you but also bigger and stronger youre giving him an even greater chance of winning fighting that way.

2-you know thats a lie. Id agree if t were a younger louis his jab is better over all, but Foreman had a powerful jab like a telephone pole. When rocky fought louis he was past his best and lacked the sharpness or explosiveness he had as a younger champion and yet he still kept rocky at bay for 8 rounds. Foreman hit way harder than an old louis.

3-wow you really just compared foreman to butterbean

[url]https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=2tuB3KlJaBA[/url]

As you can see, contrary to popular belief foreman did a lot of strength training. You can clearly see him chopping wood, doing bicep curls and pulling jeeps as a 40 year old man and developing a bulky, muscular physique. That aint just blubber. Theres a reason so many guys got shoved back by even an old foreman. He has more than 50 lbs of solid muscle over rocky.

4-lol ok. What part of the fact briggs, c00ney, morrison, and stewart couldnt ko foreman do you nt understand? Rocky had power obviously but at 5'10, 188 lbs, and having a 67' reach i seriously doubt he hit as hard as those guys, let alone harder than them. Meaning: he isnt sending george to the hospital.

Not only that, given how small he is, hed have a hard time just getting close and landing on george let alone hurting him. George was basically 2 weight classes above him and always shoved and wrestled people who tried to charge in. And if they didnt learn hed proceed to club them with powerful hooks and uppercuts. Rocky was dropped by an old light heavyweight in the 2nd round.

 

1) What played into George's hands was being easy to hit. Foreman did great against guys that he could tee off on. Marciano is in the pocket but by no means a sitting duck. Conversely, Foreman would be easy for Marciano to hit.

2) We'll have to disagree on the relative strengths of Louis and Foreman's jabs at that stage. It seems obvious to me that Louis was much sharper and faster, whereas Foreman's jab was slower and harder.

3) Mariusz Pudzianowski is ten times stronger than big George. He'll be the world's best fighter! ... oh, no, wait, he won't. I can SEE the difference between ripped 230 lb Foreman and 260lb grandpa Foreman. About 30lb of fat. Yeah, he was still strong. I've never disputed it.

4) I don't think Marciano would KO Foreman. Most of the time Foreman KO'd himself by gassing out. His old version didn't gas ... but he was as slow as a frozen waterfall and there to be hit. No way he outworks or outboxes Rocky. He'd have to stop him - which I did admit is a possibility - but something that I don't think would happen. Even if he knocked him down, Marciano had tremendous recuperative powers and I don't see gramps Foreman chasing him down.

 

Good discussion, btw... even if I don't agree with you. Classic for the win.

 

You can respond to the real points being made.

Morrison didn't really win the fight in the way you have been describing as I've shown, and you refuse to respond to. Nor did Morrison do anything so advanced it couldn't possibly be emulated by just about any world class swarmer, at various points he literally walked away from Foreman.

He has a listed 67" reach...and so what?

Nobody said he did. You asked for examples of him doing those things to show he was capable of physically doing them in a boxing match, I provided clips and you freaked out and changed the goal posts.

Not a fact. Marciano won fights by using his jab to set up feints and power punches.
And Maricano did get pass Joe Louis' jab frequently before the 9th round. It's on film. I know Maricano said respectful things about the jab but there is actual footage of the fight that shows how it went down.

Moore was a great defensive fighter and Maricano was going for the kill and overwhelming him while he was on the ropes, of course he missed punches...he missed punches that set up lands, that's called a combination. The first two punches may miss but the point is it moves the guy into a power shot that doesn't.

What does counters have to do with anything? You think old Foreman is going to counter punch him if Moore couldn't?

Let's talk real facts. Never stopped on cuts or knocked out in 49 fights in a weight class with no limit.

Bigger is the only fact there. Yes, he was taller and weighed more in what appeared to be mostly old man fat.

This is a primitive analysis. In simplest terms, you are just picking Foreman because he's taller and weighs more. Nevermind he's a 49 year old man with no stamina and foot work, reduced to throwing slow arm punches.

I'm the only one here using real facts, history, and fight footage.

You can call me names all you want, doesn't change the fact you have no real counter argument to anything I wrote, and would rather avoid and pose.

 

This.

Marciano was still very well conditioned at his last fight and looked great, physically. He'd hurt Foreman, alright.

Foreman did incredibly well in his comeback and boxed very smartly given his limitations, taking nothing away from him. But Marciano is an out-of-context problem for old Foreman.

 

1-i disagree. George wasnt hard to hit up close, true, but Rockys simply too short to take advantage. And george isnt going to just let him bore inside. Hell try to establish his jab and keep rocky at mid range. I understand rocky had that crouch and didnt just stand there jaw out but i just cant see him mounting an effective offense.

2-i just wrote that actually. My point was that holyfield is faster than rocky and he still got hit by georges jab (a lot actually) so its a stretch to say rocky is going to easily slip and bob past it a la tyson.

3-there is no point in briging up his "fat" if you aclnowledge george is way stronger than rocky. And it does make a huge difference when a smaller guy is trying to duke it out up close. Leverage, clinches, clubbing power, shoving, etc. All of that will factor into whether rocky will be effective at all.

4-by far the most reasonable pro rocky argument. Rocky had very good recuperative powers and old george foreman didnt always chase people down after he got the title again. In the modern era i could see the ref stopping it if he drops rocky top often.

Also i never said hed "outbox" rocky. More like a gradual beat down after a thrilling war where he simply lands more telling power punchers. I wouldnt say maidana "outboxed" adrian broner, he simply beat his ass and prevented broner from carrying out his own game plan. I will acknowledge if rocky gets past round 6 and avoids getting bounced around like frazier he has a chance of pulling off an ugly decision.

 

Good posts all round.

I don't think there's much to add here that hasn't been said. The arguments are clear.

In the end, it's all just opinions

 

Qawi was listed only at 5'7" and he landed often against Foreman on the inside.

[url]http://makeagif.com/gif/george-foreman-vs-dwight-muhammad-qawi-19031988-JlO7Ni[/url]

What good are these official jab connects if he failed to keep his man at range? Evander frequently got inside and used Foreman as a punching bag almost at will. There are points Evander even let Foreman touch him with the jab, just so he could inside and do damage.

[url]http://makeagif.com/gif/evander-holyfield-vs-george-foreman-full-fight-LdP99j[/url]

So? George had a significant weight advantage on every man he faced in his comeback and could probably out lift them, he still lost fights and got beat up quite a few times. He had 50 pounds on Evander and Qwai was 190 in his previous fight 3 months prior to Foreman. Foreman still felt their power.

Not sure why you keep bringing up 70s Foreman. The Foreman in this thread is almost 30 years older.