Marciano on Alis refusal to go to war. Full Letter.

in the end Ali was right

 

Ali was a puppet of the Nation of Islam in the mid 1960's. According to Ali's biographer Houser ( Spelling ), someone from the Nation of Islam told to repeat the famous line, " No Vietcong call me you know what."

If the war in Vietnam was in the best interests of the Nation Of Islam, Ali could have had a different stance on the war.

 

Ali was nothing more than a mouthpiece for others for most of his career without an original thought in his head.

 

Burt Bienstock summed it up nicely.

Spot on.

 

Interesting thread. My two cents: My father is a Vietnam veteran. To him, going to war was his duty as an American citizen and a way to rebel against his father-figure uncle who told him that he "wouldn't be the pimple on the ass of a marine." You'd be inclined to think that he would be critical of Ali's stance on the war, but that's not the case. He felt as I do that Muhammad was a man of strong conviction. Whether he was manipulated by the Black Muslims or not is kind of irrelevant in my opinion. He had personal beliefs: religious, political and social for not going to Vietnam. He made a stand and you've got to respect that.

 

Sure, Benedict Arnold also made a stand also, so should we respect that too ? I have personal beliefs, not to pay my taxes...Should i be respected also ? What about not having a drivers license, because of "personal" reasons
I have, should i be respected by society ? Where does this end.? How can a society long exist,if you or I disregard the laws or duties we must perform
and leave it to the next sucker ,who along with the vast majority of responsible citizens ,makes a civilization work. Everyone has STRONG CONVICTIONS, even an Adolph Hitler also had convictions. What if every citizen refused to serve in the armed forces,refused to pay their taxes under the selfish guise of convictions, in essence saying,screw the law, let others bear the burden, how
long before anarchy takes over and a country is destroyed ? Darn it, you know the answer...Ali was no damn hero, BARNEY ROSS was fighting in a foxhole
in Guadalcanal,surrounded by his fellow Marines dead bodies, and saving
the lives of other poor guys that obeyed the law of their country. Now their was a HERO risking his life, so you and I and Ali,can live our lives...God bless the USA. My generation loved it and fought for it...Cheers...

 

Okay, you don't have to respect it.

 

burt, I respect your opinion and service to our country. Where does it all end? Good question. There's no easy answers. Many would say that the reasons for fighting in WWII are more relevant than what led us into Vietnam. Others, like my father for instance, would say that "Ours is not to question how or why, ours is to do or die." I think it's a shame that a lot of Americans no longer feel any duty to their country, but it's not hard to understand why. I contemplated military service at one time and asked my father his opinion. He said there was no reason that I should die for oil. Selfish? Sure, he didn't want his son to be in harm's way, but I think there's a bit more to it than that. In order for the masses to serve their government's needs there needs to be a semblance of trust, but that's been eroded irreversibly over time. I wish I could say otherwise. :verysad

 

Boggle ,I respect you and your dad,and like your style. I have seen the change in our attitudes,since the end of World War 2. And believe me B,this
change was not for the best. I have my thoughts why Patriotism,and love
of this country is considered old fashioned today in society. I saw this
lousy attitude taking roots in our country,year by year,and it makes me so sad. I know the reasons but this is not the forum for political discussions.
What bugs me is that old bromide that whatever the USA does in our world,
it is "because OF OIL". What is wrong with OIL. Last that I heard these same critics were driving to work in a oil driven car. Their Grocery's were delivered to the supermarket by gas driven trucks. They went on vacation on fuel driven planes and so forth...And oh yes they have stocks in some oil company's
along with millions of other stockholders. Yes B, the world is achanging and not for the better. Take care:good

 

very true Burt, in the sense that a democracy is truly the best of all evils but man is not perfect and therefore nothing where man is involved can be perfect....nothing religion,government,or philosophy but there is always the best of 2 evils...

it is funny because there are people that proclaim peace but its the ones that fight for it are the ones that make it so for the peace-lovers...I am not saying that governments do not have an agenda but at least in America if we use the constitution correctly the people should have the power and not an amended or diluted version of the constitution

...Religion or faith is a great thing if you truly believe it is not something that can be taught it is a gift but diluted or watered down faith is not faith....I have uncles and great uncles who have fought in all the wars of this nation and you are correct if they all felt they should not fight for a government who felt we were 2nd class citizens there would be no victorys and no freedom for any.

As far as Ali goes we can look at it and understand his views...Slavery was not a good thing and prejudice was never but many of the immigrants including mine suffered from it but for the most part coming from Europe understood where they came from and where they were and saw the much better of 2 evils and hoped for a better man and a better world.

You would not see a Muhammad Ali anywhere else but in America, not in the Muslim nation and not anyplace in Africa would he have the freedom to express his heart, defy the order of a nation and be forgiven and live on to become a hero.

I am not a blind loyal patriot. I am not a lamb lead to slaughter nor blind to the faults of a country or of men but America is still the best of all evils.

 

I got a feeling that someone wrote that for him.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say but things are not always black and white and there were people and businesses with an agenda in the Viet Nam war. Like I said before only in America would you see a Muhammad Ali, he would not last in most places in Africa or the Muslim world where freedom of speech is not allowed. I do not agree with prejudice or slavery but it has been around way before America and blacks were not the only ones to suffer from it and Jews where not the only ones killed by Hitler.

I can understand Alis reasoning for not entering the war but it does not mean I agree with it and in retrospect out of the abundance of the heart the man speak.

As far as wars my prospective or opinion is to make yourself strong and pick your fights but we pick our leaders in this country and they chose our wars.

I may not agree with their decisions at times but come from a long line of people who at the end of the day follow orders and fight for their country but I do not have blind faith or believe all the propaganda but having had friends that died in the war or came back scared and heard all the story's and not all of them are good . I have not met a perfect man nor a perfect Country but I do think America has the best record and the best foundation.

Ali is a product of America and the freedom of speech he expressed hear would not be tolerated in most other nations