Marciano on Alis refusal to go to war. Full Letter.

More than 300k American boys, Burt. Look up the Okinawa formula released by American High Command to be delivered to Truman. Scary stuff.

Whats interesting about Marciano and Ali, is despite Rocky being a pretty vocal critic of Muhammad's early, they appeared to get along very well shortly before the Rock's death, and said some pretty generous things about eachother.

I think ol' Ali was ALOT more likeable in person than he made his image appear. Most people, once they got past his press persona, and if they werent fighting him, were extremely fond of the guy. My Dad worked a bit with Futch and Frazier, and based on a grand total of like, 2 hours interaction with the guy when the camera's were off, my Dad would say, "I just can't hate him. Too funny, too generous." Didn't stop him from shouting something that equated to LOUIS by KNOCKOUT when he was drunk, though, thats for sure. Thought Rocky would beat him too, but just because "Clay's too pretty to beat a wrecking ball like Rock."

 

M,you are correct about the imoending invasion of the Islands off Japan, and the Mainland. Truman had no choice, but to drop the bomb. NO CHOICE.
Thank the powers that be ,that project Manhattan obtained the bomb FIRST
ahead of Hitler or Japan.!!!You and i would not be posting this, and today's
"Blame America Group" ,would have never been born ! Fate decreed that we get the terrible atomic bomb first...
I once spoke to Yank Durham Fraziers trainer then, for fifteen minutes at the Concord Hotel in
Sullivan County NY, after Joe Frazier finished his sparring and was taking a shower. Yank Durham said kind things about Rocky Marciano, I recall.
Magna, take care...:good

 

Well, African Americans were allowed to vote in the 1800's, yet we all know how that turned out, with the literacy laws and all.


Racism still exists today, it's not something that can be solved by one bill, or act.

Maybe to some people who think like you, a lot has been accomplished up to that point. And maybe in Jack Johnsons heyday, people thought a lot had been done up that point for black Americans as well, and that he should have shown less hatred towards white America.

Like Corbett said, Johnson is "one of those fresh negroes." Maybe, in a more politically correct and sensitive mentality, and to a much lesser degree, you share similar sentiments about Ali.


And maybe he was under the direction of the NOI, AND felt in his own heart the war was wrong. These feelings and ideas can co-exist. It's not one of the other. Hes not against the war OR being advised. Maybe he was both? And maybe there were even some more factors involved.

 

Johnson brought a lot of **** upon himself, but there we are , his ego probably made him a champ ,it also made him an insufferable ***** at times.

 

Had Ali been foolish enough to enter the Army, he would have come back in a body bag. Great forethought on Ali and the NOI's part to, just say NO.

Incidently, What was Marciano's rank in the Army?

Or did he join the Navy?

 

Rez, I try to be respectful to you, but what in hell do you mean some "people who think like you" ? You don't even know my thoughts or backround,to classify me with "people who think like me". That is reverse "racism'. I am my own person Rez,and my thoughts have as MUCH validity as yours. I,or my descendants never were slave owners,never discriminated against any race,try to be fair to everyone, but PANDER to no one. And my generation fought and DIED for this concept. Have a good day....

 

So much disrespect shown in this thread...

 

thanks for posting this letter

 

you see as soon as someone let's a sound here that is not agreable with you ?? it is :"we saved you're ass" and because of that i can't make an different opinion ??
further more no reason for calling me names.. i didn't call you names as well mr. bienstock.
more people do this on the internet.. well we live seperated by miles of ocean but if someone calls me names do it in my face..
know someone brougth up hiroshima that it was to save lifes of troops..
it was a warcrime......... by throwing that bomb lot's of innocent people got cancer. even in the yeatrs after that. lot's if babys where born with cancer..
it was a warcrime the same as the nazis did in the camps..
further more calling adolf hitler my idol ??? bull**** that's what i ment as soon as someone doesn't agree with you scary rigthwinged thinkers he is a communist or nazi ??
like i said how come you americans are disliked all over the world ?? maybe it has something to do with this kind of arrogant behaviour..

 

and i agree this is a boxing forum but i reacted on to other peoples bull****.. i can't stand for stupid opinions being made

 

LOL @ you.............you would be speaking German with the rest of Europe including England if the USA would not have intervened with supplies first and troops later. Fact.

Greenies aka Commies like you are the plague that creates eventually another major conflict .............spouting off with no actual balls but then calling 1 800 USA when the **** hits the fan again because your campus BS is all talk with no action.

I was born and grew up in your neighboring country and now live in the greatest country on earth, the USA and my direct family wore the black uniform if you know what I mean and vermin like you sold out /collaborated like the spineless French with them to the max.......

 

Right on, mate.

America saved Russia and the UK with its Industry. Fact.
Americans did about 70% of the work liberating Western Europe. Fact.

The atomic bombs dropped saved 450-730,000 American lives. We have strong evidence to suggest that unless the mainland invasion of Japan went swimmingly(Okinawa did not go swimmingly), this is about what it would cost.

Its war. They bombed us in Hawaii first. They raped and murdered thousands and thousands of Chinese people, and treated American prisoners of war like animals. They needed to be BEATEN, and rather than burn their country to the ground, we chose a couple of cities instead.

To date, less have died from the bombs dropped then would have been killed in 5 months of invasion of Japan. The real warcrime would have been the utter destruction of the Japanese people and the destruction of their homeland when another option was available. General Akima was already arming civilians to resist. We had a bloodbath on our hands trying to end the war the traditional way.

 

Sau,great post you write. But S.it will not penetrate the skulls of the haters of America.Their disease is terminal. They hate FACTS,and rational reasoning.
They sit on their rumps whilst Uncle Sam himself tries to fight the evil of this
globe,as best it could. We are not always successful,in this DIFFICULT and
COMPLICATED task,but if not the USA, who the hell would ?
These people are so darn brainwashed, by the modern left,that it is virtually impossible to reason with them, but I cannot let revisionism history go
unchallenged by the likes of misguided people that literally,wouldn't be
LIVING today,were it not for the sacrifices of the United States ...Thanks S:good

 

Some good comments being presented here,to represent both sides of the arguement,concerning USA's role as international policeman. Would someone please comment,though, on why no action is taken against the evil Robert Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe.......! Is it because of the OIL factor,or something different ???????

 

This thread is a perfect example of how society has a habit of looking at the past through the modern day zeitgeist. What have Iraq, Afghanistan and Zimbabwe have to do with anything to do with Ali's reason to aviod the Draft or Vietnam?????????????????

The Nation of Islam in the 60's was on the outside a group with strong ideals and sentiment, but were in truth were a repugnant outfit. As Malcom X and Ali found out many years later. We are looking at Ali's reasoning all wrong here. Ali's reason, whatever they may be were far more to do with domestic US reasons and the civil rights movement than the rights or wrongs of the Vietnam war. Was Ali coerced into making his choice? No. He made the choice himself. Was Ali's choice to avoid the Draft supported by the Nation of Islam. Very much so. But it doesn't take away the fact that Ali made the choice himself. Unforgiven at the start of this thread was bang on with discription of a mother making excuses for their child. For right or wrong lets accept Ali did this himself and place the onus on him and him alone. We are getting wrapped up in what 'we' would do in Ali's shoes here and twisting things to fit our argument. Would I myself avoid the Draft? No. I'd do my duty and serve. But that's just my personal opinion made up of my own life experiences, ideals and beliefs. Not a statement of fact on the rights or wrongs of the war. I never grew up in the US during the 40's and 50's in Kentucky. I was never the Heavyweight Champion of the world during the civil rights movement of the 60's. So I, and none of us here have any clue what Ali went through or why did did what he did. Thinking that you would never go to Vietnam, therefore Ali was 100% correct is stupid. Same as thinking that you would go, therefore Ali was 100% irrefutably wrong just as nonsense.

On the Louis, Robinson, Charles serving in WWII, therefore Ali was wrong line; Ali frankly did have it far easier than people like Louis. But saying that someone had it easier than the previous generation isn't a sound argument. Ali did have it better than Louis. But Louis had it infinitely better than Jack Johnson. Does that mean that Joe Louis be thankful that he had the honor of stepping on the White House lawn or the IRS screwed him over so badly because Jack Johnson never even had the same opportunity? Of course not. Just because your generation has it slightly better than the last doesn't mean you should be agreeing or disagreeing with national policy. It just means you have it better. If the individual feels indebted to his nation then he should repay back these benefits he enjoys in day to day life. It's the right thing to do. If the individual doesn't feel indebted to his nation and infact sees more injustice than opportunity then he should make a stand and change these injustices. It's the right thing to do. Either way, it's his choice.


Junior-Soprano: You are an idiot. Quite frankly you need to stop acting like a ***** and read up on Dutch national history. Anyone from the Netherlands insulting the United States about empire, oil, resources, occupation and milions dead needs to read up on the Dutch colonial empire. The Dutch killed and plundered with the best of them up untill i'ts collapse in WWII. Go and visit the WWII military cemeteries at Arnhem and Margraten and see the thousands apon thousands of gravestones of young men who died to liberate your nation. You can have a different opinion, of course. It's called freedom of speech. But you have to acknowledge that right you exercise today is a direct consequence of men from the US, Canada and UK and their 'evil' war fighting machine who never had to liberate the Dutch or any other Western European nation who consorted so readily and openly with the Nazi regime in the extermination of their own people. Get off your high horse and read a book.