Marciano - One Man's Opinion ...

burt bienstock · Jun 23, 2010

RockyJim said: ↑

Hey Norton...When all else fails...bring up color....same ****...different day!!!
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Re Norton-
Where is Sigmund Freud when we need him ?

burt bienstock · Jun 23, 2010

SuzieQ49 said: ↑

I disagree. I think Marciano's style was tailored made to fight the big men successfully. Charlie Goldman even stated this in Marciano's book. How he thought Marciano would be in against much bigger, taller heavyweights so he taught rocky how to fight low in a crouch(making himself a smaller target), and gave him a 270lb punching bag to hit so he would be able to move those big heavyweights around with his punches. Turns out he never ended up fighting any good real big ones. Whether or not he would be successful is one thing, but I feel rocky's style was trained to fight the big men, and break them down. Smaller elusive boxers are the difficult matchups for the Rock(which is amazing since he fought so many). Now, that doesn't mean rocky beats lennox lewis or riddick bowe, but it certainly means he matches up well with many big heavyweights throughout history..especially if he comes in the ring today at 205lb. Rocky actually made great use of his lack of tools(reach, height) by fighting short...it gave him much greater leverage.

Whatever...Just ONE man's opinion.

So Dipping, Ducking, Weaving, Parrying, in a crouch thus making yourself a smaller target takes super human ability?
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Excellent evaluation of Marciano-I was fortunate to see Marciano ko Carmine Vingo at MSG in 1949, and as I posted before I watched Rocky
from three feet away box with sparring partners at Grossingers,NY.
He was awkward looking but my,when his battering ram like punches landed on ANY part of his opponents torso, damage was done...The man BROKE blood vessels on the arms of his partners,so powerful was his blows
He fought from a crouch leaning his upper body backwards, making him a difficult target to hit for a larger and slower heavyweight..it is not easy to punch at your target downwards,so Rocky was no easy target to hit solidly..I remember while he was battering his sparring partners at Grossingers, my friends and I were happy we didn't persue boxing for a living...b.b.

Bummy Davis · Jun 24, 2010

SuzieQ49 said: ↑

Are you claiming Walcott and Charles were past their primes when Layne beat them?

Here is the version of Charles that Rex Layne beat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2PutDflPYo

Please tell me from this 1952 Ezzard Charles what makes you think he doesn't have it anymore? I see blazing fast hands/reflexes from charles here.

Here is a 1950 version of Jersey Joe Walcott

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTmNZZXLMng

Please tell me from this 1950 Jersey Joe Walcott what makes you think he doesn't have it anymore?

Here is Walcott one year LATER in 1951

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmojnJNIyA8

Tough? Decent? thats all you have to say about him? What about Powerful Right Hand, Stiff left jab, human workhorse, Very Durable, Aggresiveness, High Volume of punches? What none of this applies to you?

Name me 5 heavyweight contenders in history who beat TWO consensus top 20 heavyweights of all time near their primes, the way Layne did?

I do not rate Layne in my top 50 heavyweight of all time list, but he has a case for being in there. He certainly classify's as a world class fighter.
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That version of these men would rattle the ear-wax out of the likes of Ray Mercer, Tim Witherspoon and the all of the heavy's today not named Klitschko and I would not bet my house on the K-Bros either

red cobra · Jun 24, 2010

john garfield said: ↑

Thanks, b. Should know better.
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Yeah John..Bodhi's right..it's like arguing with those two overwrought, agenda driven idiots Itrimariti and "KenNorton804" about the relative merits of Carlos Monzon...it isn't worth it trying to communicate with those types...

SuzieQ49 · Jun 24, 2010

Marciano never got in the ring with any 230 pound fighter regardless of race and beat them
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Wrong.

Marciano beat 230lb Big Bill Wilson and 254lb Humphrey Jackson

janitor · Jun 24, 2010

KenNorton804 said: ↑

John your white skin color just proves that you will try to defend any person who is white. Marciano is trash because he is trash. Tyson is trash because he is trash. I call them like I see them. If you think Marciano was great then that is up to you. This country is filled with mentally ******ed people. If anything I expect people you to make idiotic statements.
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Do you want the truth?

You are just some silly little kid sitting behind a computer calling former lineal heavyweight champions trash.

The truth is that you would literaly **** your pants if you were put in the ring with any world class boxer never mind a former lineal champion.

Its not just that you are not worthy to kiss Rocky Marciano's spit bucket, you are not even worthy to kiss Ted Lowry's spit bucket.

Are my statments making any sense to you now?

If in this day in age you still think because somebody is white they are superior to somebody becasue they are black then you are a racist plain and simple. It isnt a opinion. I have yet to see a thread that states Bob Foster could beat the Klitschko's and you know why?
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I as a white person have argued that Sam Langford could beat the Klitschkos.

Whats going on there?

Then turn right around and try to praise the fighters Marciano fought. He never got in the ring with a world class fighter who was in their primes period. Marciano never got in the ring with any 230 pound fighter regardless of race and beat them.
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How many world class 230lb fighters were there around during Marciano's prime?

The truth is that 230lb fighters were virtualy non existent before weight training was routinely employed in boxing in the 80s.

How many world class 230lb fighters did George Foreman beat?

Marciano never beat anybody his own size who was still in their primes period.

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Well Rex Layne was bigger than him and in his prime.

The one thing that you can definitely say in Marciano's favour on the size issue, is that the smaller fighters he fought often had the weight advantage on him.

Yet he is great? Get the hell out here. I never seen any of you say Michael Moorer was great and he fought and beat better fighters than Marciano. How many threads are about Riddick Bowe and how great he was? None that I have found.

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these fighters were not as great as Marciano because they did not dominate their eras, did not beat many of the best fighters of their eras, and did not beat the best available.

That is what legacy stands or falls on at the end of the day.

There could be a thread called who has the fastest hands in boxing history and I bet Marciano never would be on the list.

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Neither would a lot of all time greats.

Who had the best chin. Marciano would be on the list even though he didnt face any big puncher who was still in their primes.

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Well nobody ever came close to knocking him out.

He fought bigger punchers than some of the people who stopped or dropped George Foreman.

Who is to say what it would have taken to stop him.

I seen clowns put down Lewis for fighting Holyfield, Foreman for fighting Briggs, Tyson for fighting various people, ect ect ect, I have yet to see any of you say anything about anybody Marciano fought. No matter how bad or washed up they are you try to build up his opposition to make Marciano look better.

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There is a verry good reason why Marciano is not criticised for who he fought.

They were the #1 contenders.

That means that they were the most deserving available challengers.

Every single title challenger he faced bar one was the current #1 ranked contender.

What else could he have done?
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red cobra · Jun 24, 2010

What's his name has the same silly, inane, and racist agenda every time he posts when it concerns a white fighter.

red cobra · Jun 24, 2010

janitor said: ↑

Do you want the truth?

You are just some silly little kid sitting behind a computer calling former lineal heavyweight champions trash.

The truth is that you would literaly **** your pants if you were put in the ring with any world class boxer never mind a former lineal champion.

Its not just that you are not worthy to kiss Rocky Marciano's spit bucket, you are not even worthy to kiss Ted Lowry's spit bucket.

Are my statments making any sense to you now?

I as a white person have argued that Sam Langford could beat the Klitschkos.

Whats going on there?

How many world class 230lb fighters were there around during Marciano's prime?

The truth is that 230lb fighters were virtualy non existent before weight training was routinely employed in boxing in the 80s.

How many world class 230lb fighters did George Foreman beat?

Well Rex Layne was bigger than him and in his prime.

The one thing that you can definitely say in Marciano's favour on the size issue, is that the smaller fighters he fought often had the weight advantage on him.

these fighters were not as great as Marciano because they did not dominate their eras, did not beat many of the best fighters of their eras, and did not beat the best available.

That is what legacy stands or falls on at the end of the day.

Neither would a lot of all time greats.

Well nobody ever came close to knocking him out.

He fought bigger punchers than some of the people who stopped or dropped George Foreman.

Who is to say what it would have taken to stop him.

There is a verry good reason why Marciano is not criticised for who he fought.

They were the #1 contenders.

That means that they were the most deserving available challengers.

Every single title challenger he faced bar one was the current #1 ranked contender.

What else could he have done?
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"White racism" is always the convenient crutch...the eternal standby for a clown like Chris Warren/Ken Norton806..I don't use the ignore function like this LOSER does, but I would participate if everybody would get together to use it on this racist troll.
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Bill1234 · Jun 24, 2010

KenNorton804 said: ↑

John your white skin color just proves that you will try to defend any person who is white. Marciano is trash because he is trash. Tyson is trash because he is trash. I call them like I see them. If you think Marciano was great then that is up to you. This country is filled with mentally ******ed people. If anything I expect people you to make idiotic statements.

If in this day in age you still think because somebody is white they are superior to somebody becasue they are black then you are a racist plain and simple. It isnt a opinion. I have yet to see a thread that states Bob Foster could beat the Klitschko's and you know why? Because there is no 180 pound black green or blue fighter who could get in the ring with a 250 pound skilled boxer who was white, pink, yellow or any other color and win.

Post after post after post I see people like you try to put down who Foreman, Bowe, Lewis ect ect ect fought. Then turn right around and try to praise the fighters Marciano fought. He never got in the ring with a world class fighter who was in their primes period. Marciano never got in the ring with any 230 pound fighter regardless of race and beat them. Marciano never beat anybody his own size who was still in their primes period.

Yet he is great? Get the hell out here. I never seen any of you say Michael Moorer was great and he fought and beat better fighters than Marciano. How many threads are about Riddick Bowe and how great he was? None that I have found.

As Eddie Murphy said in "Coming to Amrerica" every time you mention boxing to a white person they find a way to pull Rocky Marciano out their asses. That is exactly what you people do.

There could be a thread called who has the fastest hands in boxing history and I bet Marciano never would be on the list.

Who had the best chin. Marciano would be on the list even though he didnt face any big puncher who was still in their primes.

Who had the best defense, Marciano would be on this list.

I never seen anybody here or in any other boxing forum state Marciano was slow, yet in every thread that mentions George Foreman one of you clowns would say Foreman was slow. What other reason would you people do this besides race?

I seen clowns put down Lewis for fighting Holyfield, Foreman for fighting Briggs, Tyson for fighting various people, ect ect ect, I have yet to see any of you say anything about anybody Marciano fought. No matter how bad or washed up they are you try to build up his opposition to make Marciano look better.

If anything I should ignore you people, Why lower myself down to a bunch of racially biased whites level.
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I agree 100%.:good

ross · Jun 24, 2010

Marciano was a brave warrior, but to even suggest he would've given Holmes,Foreman, or Ali problems is hard to imagine. I guess these are the same people who think Kosta could've beaten ODH,FMJ, and Mosley.

Bummy Davis · Jun 24, 2010

KenNorton804 said: ↑

John your white skin color just proves that you will try to defend any person who is white. Marciano is trash because he is trash. Tyson is trash because he is trash. I call them like I see them. If you think Marciano was great then that is up to you. This country is filled with mentally ******ed people. If anything I expect people you to make idiotic statements.

If in this day in age you still think because somebody is white they are superior to somebody becasue they are black then you are a racist plain and simple. It isnt a opinion. I have yet to see a thread that states Bob Foster could beat the Klitschko's and you know why? Because there is no 180 pound black green or blue fighter who could get in the ring with a 250 pound skilled boxer who was white, pink, yellow or any other color and win.

Post after post after post I see people like you try to put down who Foreman, Bowe, Lewis ect ect ect fought. Then turn right around and try to praise the fighters Marciano fought. He never got in the ring with a world class fighter who was in their primes period. Marciano never got in the ring with any 230 pound fighter regardless of race and beat them. Marciano never beat anybody his own size who was still in their primes period.

Yet he is great? Get the hell out here. I never seen any of you say Michael Moorer was great and he fought and beat better fighters than Marciano. How many threads are about Riddick Bowe and how great he was? None that I have found.

As Eddie Murphy said in "Coming to Amrerica" every time you mention boxing to a white person they find a way to pull Rocky Marciano out their asses. That is exactly what you people do.

There could be a thread called who has the fastest hands in boxing history and I bet Marciano never would be on the list.

Who had the best chin. Marciano would be on the list even though he didnt face any big puncher who was still in their primes.

Who had the best defense, Marciano would be on this list.

I never seen anybody here or in any other boxing forum state Marciano was slow, yet in every thread that mentions George Foreman one of you clowns would say Foreman was slow. What other reason would you people do this besides race?

I seen clowns put down Lewis for fighting Holyfield, Foreman for fighting Briggs, Tyson for fighting various people, ect ect ect, I have yet to see any of you say anything about anybody Marciano fought. No matter how bad or washed up they are you try to build up his opposition to make Marciano look better.

If anything I should ignore you people, Why lower myself down to a bunch of racially biased whites level.
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Let me guess...You must be a little black transvestite, who is a cybor tough-guy racist but a closet punk...Quote Eddie"the He-She Lover" Murphy in a movie...you may learn a few things about life when you enter JR. High School....try playing with girls instead of yourself and stop staring at that Mandingo poster or you may end up like Eddie.

Bummy Davis · Jun 24, 2010

By the way...How did I know you have a Mandingo poster in your room...I been around a while and I know your type..cmon admit it

he grant · Jun 25, 2010

KenNorton804 said: ↑

John your white skin color just proves that you will try to defend any person who is white. Marciano is trash because he is trash. Tyson is trash because he is trash. I call them like I see them. If you think Marciano was great then that is up to you. This country is filled with mentally ******ed people. If anything I expect people you to make idiotic statements.

If in this day in age you still think because somebody is white they are superior to somebody becasue they are black then you are a racist plain and simple. It isnt a opinion. I have yet to see a thread that states Bob Foster could beat the Klitschko's and you know why? Because there is no 180 pound black green or blue fighter who could get in the ring with a 250 pound skilled boxer who was white, pink, yellow or any other color and win.

Post after post after post I see people like you try to put down who Foreman, Bowe, Lewis ect ect ect fought. Then turn right around and try to praise the fighters Marciano fought. He never got in the ring with a world class fighter who was in their primes period. Marciano never got in the ring with any 230 pound fighter regardless of race and beat them. Marciano never beat anybody his own size who was still in their primes period.

Yet he is great? Get the hell out here. I never seen any of you say Michael Moorer was great and he fought and beat better fighters than Marciano. How many threads are about Riddick Bowe and how great he was? None that I have found.

As Eddie Murphy said in "Coming to Amrerica" every time you mention boxing to a white person they find a way to pull Rocky Marciano out their asses. That is exactly what you people do.

There could be a thread called who has the fastest hands in boxing history and I bet Marciano never would be on the list.

Who had the best chin. Marciano would be on the list even though he didnt face any big puncher who was still in their primes.

Who had the best defense, Marciano would be on this list.

I never seen anybody here or in any other boxing forum state Marciano was slow, yet in every thread that mentions George Foreman one of you clowns would say Foreman was slow. What other reason would you people do this besides race?

I seen clowns put down Lewis for fighting Holyfield, Foreman for fighting Briggs, Tyson for fighting various people, ect ect ect, I have yet to see any of you say anything about anybody Marciano fought. No matter how bad or washed up they are you try to build up his opposition to make Marciano look better.

If anything I should ignore you people, Why lower myself down to a bunch of racially biased whites level.
Click to expand...

Many of your points have a bit of merit. However you really need to tone down the racial positioning if you want to drive your points home. It's simply over the top.

Rocky is a huge point of sentimentality and reflection for many fans. From 1882 to 1937 based on racial barriers there was one black heavyweight champion. From 1937 till 2003 , basically 67 years, there was one white heavyweight champion and his name was Rocky Marciano. Rocky reigned during a hinge on history as blacks solidified their position in dominating the sport. Many , I feel, view him with rose colored glasses and give him superhuman qualities that are over the top wishes ... it's a tough pill to swallow....

That being said, hero worship aside, Marciano was not responsible for anything but his own performance and actions and on that front he was a tremendous champion and a credit to the sport. He always came into the ring in top shape. He fought everyone there was to fight. He kicked serious ass against everyone he ever fought ... how many fighters in the history of the sport can make the same claim ?

manbearpig · Jun 25, 2010

KenNorton804 said: ↑

John your white skin color just proves that you will try to defend any person who is white. Marciano is trash because he is trash. Tyson is trash because he is trash. I call them like I see them. If you think Marciano was great then that is up to you. This country is filled with mentally ******ed people. If anything I expect people you to make idiotic statements.

If in this day in age you still think because somebody is white they are superior to somebody becasue they are black then you are a racist plain and simple. It isnt a opinion. I have yet to see a thread that states Bob Foster could beat the Klitschko's and you know why? Because there is no 180 pound black green or blue fighter who could get in the ring with a 250 pound skilled boxer who was white, pink, yellow or any other color and win.

Post after post after post I see people like you try to put down who Foreman, Bowe, Lewis ect ect ect fought. Then turn right around and try to praise the fighters Marciano fought. He never got in the ring with a world class fighter who was in their primes period. Marciano never got in the ring with any 230 pound fighter regardless of race and beat them. Marciano never beat anybody his own size who was still in their primes period.

Yet he is great? Get the hell out here. I never seen any of you say Michael Moorer was great and he fought and beat better fighters than Marciano. How many threads are about Riddick Bowe and how great he was? None that I have found.

As Eddie Murphy said in "Coming to Amrerica" every time you mention boxing to a white person they find a way to pull Rocky Marciano out their asses. That is exactly what you people do.

There could be a thread called who has the fastest hands in boxing history and I bet Marciano never would be on the list.

Who had the best chin. Marciano would be on the list even though he didnt face any big puncher who was still in their primes.

Who had the best defense, Marciano would be on this list.

I never seen anybody here or in any other boxing forum state Marciano was slow, yet in every thread that mentions George Foreman one of you clowns would say Foreman was slow. What other reason would you people do this besides race?

I seen clowns put down Lewis for fighting Holyfield, Foreman for fighting Briggs, Tyson for fighting various people, ect ect ect, I have yet to see any of you say anything about anybody Marciano fought. No matter how bad or washed up they are you try to build up his opposition to make Marciano look better.

If anything I should ignore you people, Why lower myself down to a bunch of racially biased whites level.
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You are a horrible, racist piece of ****.

AmericanSugar · Jun 26, 2010

to say rocky wasn't one of the toughest s o b's, that kinda crazy. thats where my praise stops.

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