Marciano..... the greatest cruiserweight.... if he was around today?

It's pretty arrogant for you to call me bias while believing what you do. Look, I'm not saying I know more but I've studied a lot of Marciano/Frazier fights and I think he's more durable and has superior stamina and power. Now, if I were so ignorant why don't you refute the content of my actual post rather than stooping to immature ways of making me out to the pompous jerk?

Well I wasn't just referring to Frazier in FOTC. Charles did outweigh Marciano by almost 10 pounds in the rematch.

:think :roll: :hi:

 

I posted my thoughts it was you who like a 'pompous jerk' came back with the 'if you had studied these fighters like i have' statement. I am not bias as i am not a big fan of either fighter (not to say i dont respect their abilities or that i question their standing as great fighters) though i too am familiar with both.

If you read my post i do refute your post.

You refer to Frazier slowing down in your comment on FOTC Frazier nowhere else. Ive seen Charles outweighing Rocky by between 3 and 5lbs not 10 as you mentioned and he was the naturally smaller man of that there is no doubt.

As for maturity? Nice use of emoticons

I have an entirely different view despite probably watching and reading very similar material to you, that is the beauty of individual perception. I hope this has not come across as an attack on your knowledge because that is not the intention. I dont agree with your opinion but LIKE MINE it is your educated and legitimate belief. Beliefs that we are both entitled to. Neither is right or wrong, it is opinion.

 

I watched this fight this morning. Both Byrd and Klitchsko landed plenty on each other, with Klitchsko leading. Interestingly, for most of the fight, each fighter was able to land about 10 to 20 punches a round (according to whatever stats was used on the youtube version). Given that Byrd was never in any danger of being badly hurt or KOd so his power is not some sort of holy grail type of superheavyweight power, i would say that Vitali would need to land a lot more than 10 or 20 punches in a round if he is going to beat Rocky Marciano. Wouldnt you agree?

 

Very good point Seamus. To be honest, that's how I tend to look at things - taking the fighter for what they were - and for me that's the only thing one can do at the end of the day.

I was just hypothesising...after all, it's fun to speculate, even if it's absurd.

PS-You really think adding 20 pounds would make Rocky look like a bowling ball?

 

Vitali never fought Mike Tyson or David Tua so we dont know how he would do against the best of the 5'11 ATG swarmer/punchers. But those two would be the closest comparison with a modern day marciano.

 

I don't think fighters who pretty much stood in front of their opponent like Charles and Cockell did with Marciano would last three rounds with either Tyson or Tua.

I think Marciano could hit for sure, but it often took him landing and throwing a lot of leather to get the stoppage.

 

It saddens me that you have broken boxing down to a few simple weight, style and reach based formulas and dont see the need to look into it any further.

To take the harshest view you might as well be an enthusiast of a sport where people compete to see who can produce the highest **** against a wall.

 

Rocky, like most of the fighters of that time fought at their best weight. You could add 20 pounds to Marciano, but it would take away from his stamina, and speed.

Stamina was a key attribute for Marciano. I don't think he would have caught up to Walcott if he was carrying too much extra weight around the mid section.

 

Marciano's weight had much to do with his specialized training, boiling off all the unnecessary superfluous flesh to keep his suffocating style at its sharpest.

The notion of him not being able to sustain a greater weight, especially in today's training climate is one without consideration. Rocky would just be a thicker version of himself with bigger arms, a bigger chest, and consequently, have less stamina.

 

This is correct.

You only have to look at pictures of Marciano next to Floyd Patterson to see that they were verry different kinds of 185 lb fighters.

Marciano could have been 195 just by adopting a normal training routine.

 

I have never read Rocky weighted 196 for Charles 2. Can someone verify this. Evander handled rumbles with Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, Mercer and other sluggers I do not see him being muscled by Rocky. Who did Rocky ever fight remotely close this crew. No one.

 

Toney hasn't even been close to being kayoed and is great against guys who are there to be hit. It just wouldn't happen like you're saying.

 

I don't have the energy nor motive to respond in some lengthy post. In the end it's unnecessary. I want to talk boxing, not get into drama wars on a forum. I think you overreacted, you don't. Let's just leave it at that. You never originally disputed the specific things I said, so I'll try keeping this short. I see at the very end you said something about us both being entitled to our beliefs and neither is right or wrong. So, how can I have been both arrogant and ignorant? Kind of ironic, if you think about it. Anyway let's not go any further on this but I've wasted tons of energy discussing analyzing those specifics. Nothing I doubt will change either of our thoughts.

 

McGrain I got alot of respect for you and all but this post shows everything that is wrong with you nostalgic classical posters.:nut

 

So break it down for us...how does a matchup go at cruiserweight?