marciano v ****ell

If Eugene Corri or Adrian Morgan had been the third man yes.

 

Stop swearing.

 

I don't know, I think the artistic licence among press in general in those days was on a whole other level. On both sides of the Atlantic. patriotic crap (American and British) would get in the way of a honest report. Britain still had an empire then and it was important to project the image of being if not the best in the world then in its people being the fairest and most civilised in the world.

Rocky was rough. Of course he was. He hit low, elbowed and hit kockell when he was down but none of it was worth having a point taken off. Just over enthusiasm. But of course there was an opening for "artistic licence" for the British scribes to latch on to in an effort to gain some kind of moral victory to return home with. It was balls and they knew it.

In England marciano would have got a talking to that's all. No points off. No disqualification. Randy Turpin was allowed to climb all over Ray Robinson and man handle him in London. It's not like the moral high ground was taken when the boot was on the other foot.

I am British but one of the most shameful officiating I have seen on film was the allowing of Freddie mills to take such a beating in London against Gus lesenevich.

 

Hitting someone when they are down often ends up in a DQ… not merely a point deduction.

 

You only get DQ'd if the guy does an acting job, a la Norris-Santana 2.

If you're like Mike Acey, and take a 3-punch combo from Lennox Lewis when you're on the ground, but don't do an acting job, you fight on and lose.

 

Do you think Rocky should have been disqualified? I don't think it was any more than Rocky did against Walcott and lastarza and what WItherspoon and Tyson did to Frank Bruno. Joe Louis downed buddy bear after a bell had rang too but in all these calls the winner was well winning. Not to say a winner should get away with it but a loser should not be gifted a win. Schmeling getting the nod over Sharkey only happened because the fight was not going to continue and the ref was forced to make a decision.

Having said all that Arthur Mercante said he would have absolutely disqualified Tyson had his punch that missed a floored Tubbs landed. But it was more because Tyson ran across the ring to do it which he considered intentionally callous and deliberate.

 

choklab I agree with almost all of what you say except on 2 points.

I think us Brits would have DQ'd Marciano against C oc kell here at home, the NEED for a HW title by a British Boxer was a National insecurity for years. Also, though you probably know tis already, but the Mills/Lesnevich 1 fight was stopped by the ref, though like you suggest there was an undoubted extended hope for glory that 'may' have allowed it to go on longer than perhaps it should.

Referee Henderson was pulled up by the Board FOR Stopping it with only 4 seconds remaining, and so insulted was he by the Boards bias and implication that he prevented Britain from a world title that he resigned and was out of action for about 6 years or more before coming back.

He let the Board no that though a ref has an idea time in a round is running out, that they (Refs) don't know precisely just how many seconds are left and especially when a fight is in such 'intense' action and the only thing on his mind was Mill (or a Boxers), well being...

he told the Board to Stuff it!

 

I think us British are as guilty of hometown favouring as any country in the world. I think the officiating for Marciano v kockell in London would have featured lots of stern telling offs and warnings. Crouching lower than waist height and hitting after the bell are about the only things Rocky could have been pulled up for before the hitting Don on one knee foul. I don't think anything before that could warrant a disqualification. Perhaps Rocky may have resisted that punch had he been warned a few times earlier?

It's ok for an English official saying he would have disqualified Rocky after the event but at the time it would feel like sheer robbery to take a title from a clear winner for that one extra punch. That is a huge responsibility in a world heavyweight championship fight. I think that even could have went against the national sence of British fair play, as perverse as it sounds, haha.

I think where the Britsh press outrage lay was in the lack of warnings rather than lack of disqualification.

I think it is ridiculous to suggest (as some had) that Marciano was unable to fight within the rules. I think if you let any man go unchecked like American referees did in those days they are unlikely to hold back in those situations once they have come to be used to things being let go. Nobody warned Rocky in any fights for rough stuff. Apart from the lastarza fight I think? I don't know why? Maybe Rocky was overlooked so many third men because he was so clumsy that none of it was considered deliberately malicious?

I don't think hitting Don on one knee was as deliberate or as malicious as Tyson's low golf swinging haymaker that just missed Tubbs as he lay on his back. Mercante said he WOULD have been forced to disqualify Mike for that if it landed but again he might be being brave after the event.

I don't think it was any more deliberate than hitting Walcott and lastarza as they hung helpless on the ropes. Rocky was used to getting away with that.