Marciano v Liston's Best Opponents?

Oh rest assured i was acutely aware of your omnipresence when posting!!!

 

Absolutely the context is key.

you can say that again.

to be fair, Baker and Valdes were a lot more worn down when Machen fought them.

fine win for Machen stopping Valdes, probably his best, but that’s after Satterfield, Johnson, Baker and Moore had already beaten him in very punishing fights.

same with Baker. He was losing to the likes of Roy Harris and Willie Besmanoff by the time Machen got him. So that’s a different value Baker to when Moore beat him. Just think of the context here.

let’s not get rather carried away.

 

you can’t compare 34 fights in nine years versus 49 fights in seven years.


Of course the 34 fight in nine years boxer SHOULD be fighting better opponents over the fewer years.

The fighter fighting more often in fewer years can afford to have more learning fights.

The quality should not compare.


Consider this fact: it took Liston far more years. Sonny completed his apprenticeship before he even went to prison and had to start over. He had to catch up.

 

Understatement of the century.

 

LH and HW contenders were so interchangeable in those days. The LH belt was practically in the HW division. It was open to HW contenders who could make 175. Johnson, Moore, Maxim, Bivins and Charles all beat heavyweight champions. Of course they should count as heavyweight wins!

 

This simply is not true. The report of the fight describes Sonny as “highly touted” and former “international golden glove winner”. There’s no way Sonny carried his own spit bucket and sat alone in the corner.


Fight 1 (This was televised by WWJ)

https://flic.kr/p/ZqJKqV

 

It is true that Liston's losses are all of an "understandable" nature when taken in context, but Marciano, too, had a number of fights in which, had he lost, it could have been seen as "understandable" (for example, the matches against far-more-experienced undefeated prospects Ross and Quinn in Marciano's third and fourth pro fights), but he never did lose, and thus he still contrasts favorably with Liston.

From Time Magazine:

"Whatever his connections, many boxing buffs see Liston as the U.S.'s most promising challenger for Sweden's Johansson, even though Liston has so far fought only second-raters."

-August 1959 (right after Liston had KO'd Nino Valdes)

 

Lol I’m not gonna argue semantics w u. If you can’t see the relevance of beating Bivins, Maxim, Harold Johnson multiple times each when all are WELL proven at hw there’s nothing I can possibly say to you. Moore is much more proven at Hw then Machen at Hw even with out those wins. Beating prime versions of Baker, Valdez, Henry, Satterfield, Curtis Sheppard, and Bivins. Is better then Machens victories. I’m not sure why you’re arguing this so strongly. Especially if you’re being reasonable and take the Maxim and Harold Johnson wins into context. Both more then proven at Hw.