Marciano v.s. Bruno ?

Census exposes fake birth dates, it doesnt create them.

 

All contenders he beat were "old light heavies" . If you wont stand by it, admit you were wrong.

Jersey Joe-HW Champion, relevant win
Louis-#1 HW
Louis also had a real life 30 plus pound weight advantage if size matters so much to you.

Charles had not made LHW in years, turned pro at much younger age. When they fought, they were equal weight and in rematch, Charles was heavier. Are you now conceding Charles was not old?

Other contenders: LaStarza, Mathews, Lane, Cokell...not old Light Heavies.

Moore only fighter that could possibly stretch to describe. A fighter who also was equal weight to Marciano, was primarily fighting at HW, and at his fighting peak. described by the press as Rocks boogeyman.

 

They were top tier contenders.

If Bruno had gone say 1-1 against Smith and Witherspoon, but still lost to Tyson and Lewis, then the picture that you are painting starts to look more plausible.

The problem for me is not so much that he lost to Smith and Witherspoon, but that he was not beating such fighters.

Compare his record against them, to their record's against each other.

I am also suspicions of the fact that he never fought such men unless a title was on the line.

 

Listen, I know they steered Bruno away from certain fights. He'd get knocked out and then fight a can or 2 then another title shot, he was a big money spinner with a lot of support. But he had enough strength/power and a jab that would negate a hell of a lot from a 13 stone wrecking machine. I also think Smith and Witherspoon beat Rocky too. H2H Rocky is miles out the top 10 ever argument

 

Jersey joe and Louis never fought again, why do you think that is ??? You think Marciano blitzed them into retirement or they were at the end of their careers??? Name me an in prime elite fighter that Marciano beat ? There isn't one ! The reason Louis had a weight advantage was because he was an old man fighting on memory, finished. That's why it made fans so sad

 

after 120 fights you are not at your peak. Mate your not making sense, I've already said Charles was old in fighting terms,jaded, on the down hill slope

 

Depends on how you define peak.

I define it as the apex of one's success in the ring, because there is no other way to really define it. The goal of boxing is to be a successful fighter.

I don't define peak as "number of professional bouts recorded"

So you mean "old" as in a subjective opinionated way, and not in any literal sense of the word.

So I could easily say Maricano was subjectively old at 31 because he fought his last fight at 32 and retired with nagging injuries.

 

Marciano was a considerable under dog in both fights. He beat the HW Champion and the highest rated contender, both men have been inducted into the Hall of Fame, one while past his best was still a legend with a giant size advantage.

If winning the HW title as an underdog from a heavier man and future Hall of Famer is not a relevant win, then there are no relevant wins in this sport. If you are looking to argue against history, then you are going to have to do better than a "many question fallacy"

Not your original argument, which was all his "decent wins were old light heavies", quit trying to wiggle out of your original statement and man up.

Age doesn't give you a weight advantage.

Weight gives you a weight advantage.

30 pounds in what appears to be mostly lean mass is a tremendous advantage in this sport. Overcoming overwhelming odds is something fighters in this sport normally get credited for. Why is Marciano the outliner?

 

Bruno dominates the early rounds with his size, power and good jab but Rocky takes it and begins to gradually close the range as the fight goes on, big Frank begins to tire until he gets stopped in the latter rounds.

Good fight.

 

Yes you could say that, your quite right, but I think it would lend itself better to the fighter that's had 3x the amount of fights

 

Because he was fighting an old man that wasn't fighting in peak condition. If Louis was 215 prime then your argument would be correct. Where do you think the extra weight come from ??? It wasn't lean muscle at all at that weight, he didn't start lifting weights to pack more muscle on, its because he was old, like pretty much every fighter towards the end of their careers at heavy, their weight drifts up

 

Not necessarily, given its highly possible Marciano's swarming style and pre existing injuries from other sports could equal more "wear and tear" in less bouts.

 

Joe Louis was ripped to shreds, there isn't any visible fat, his body is outwardly composed of sculpted lean muscle. Just because you are in your 30s doesn't mean your muscles become useless and cease to be weighed mass. Did he not lift weights? I'm not sure of his training regime but like almost all boxers there was likely resistance training.

[url]http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/551391/80666154.jpg[/url]

[url]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1165016.1348266542!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/rocky-marciano-joe-louis-1951.jpg[/url]

I'm 37 myself, I'm 6'2 and a fairly fit 210. Just because I weighed 150 when I was 20 doesn't mean my current muscles are not muscles that cease to function against gravity and do things for lack of better word, come on, lets use some common sense here. Forget the agenda and think logically.

 

I think i'll go with common sense and stick to the same sport for my evaluation on who had more miles and wear and tear on the clock. I actually rate Marciano highly, I just cant accept he beats a much bigger stronger man with a world class heavy jab. Rocky up close is a wrecking machine, Bruno loved to grab and tie up until the ref split them. How long do you think Rocky can handle them clinches leaning on him pulling without it starting to take its toll, because these are the subtle things that Rockys up against. Hes massively outsized to the point his power and strength is negated. Tyson wouldn't be a comparison either as he was far bigger and more explosive than Rocky !

 

Whats my agenda ??