Marciano v Tokyo James Douglas?

mcvey · Oct 30, 2014

The Mongoose said: ↑

So much wrong with this post.

Nobody is going to agree to a universal listing of just 10 fighters as being the only "great" heavyweights. Can you produce such a list? 10 fighters that every single fight fan are going to agree on as the only greats. Great real. Lots of luck with that.

There is about 15-25 different possible names that are going to get tossed around in a variety of ways and no one way would really be incorrect.

Jersey Joe is usually a top 20 regular on most lists, a Hall of Famer, a lineal Champion with a great resume, the than oldest man to win the title. Hardly hyperbole to call him an all time great. His place in history was secured, long before I graced these messgae boards.
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The bottomline is this:

You said Walcott is ,"an all time great heavyweight".

I say he isn't and challenged you, or anybody else, to produce a heavyweight list by a respected boxing writer that has Walcott's name on it.
You haven't done so, and neither has anyone else.
The reason for that is simple no such list exists.

Being a Hall of Famer is meaningless ,as is the IBRO Hall of Fame and being a lineal champion means what?

Carnera was lineal champion .atsch

Nobody is going to agree on a universal list, I know that , but thanks for stating the obvious.
What you will find though is the same names will regularly turn up in any list of great heavyweight champions.
eg Ali,Louis,Holmes,etc

On none of those lists will you see the name Jersey Joe Walcott, I know it, you know it and so does everybody else ,so why not stop embarrassing yourself?
Admit you got a bit carried away with your assessment of Walcott, " as an all time great heavyweight " and we can move on.

Otherwise you are just demeaning yourself to no good purpose. Let me know when you have an article ,or a list that describes Walcott as an all time great heavyweight.
Meantime, I won't be holding my breath.:bart

Foxy 01 · Oct 30, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

Foxy 01 said: ↑

If I were going to Thailand for ***, I wouldn't be accompanied by my partner would I numb nuts?

Your ***ual fantasies are entirely in your own sewer brain.

Do you know what I think about tough boys beating their chests and saying immature Rambo things like ," no witnesses,no rules ," from the safety and anonymity of their PC's?

I think they are as yellow as dog **** and full of ****.

I've no need to impress anyone ,I just put the record straight when I was accused of having a sad, empty life by your new friend Bummy.

I wonder how long it will be before he realises you class the American public as ," formerly racist scum"?

I don't see that alliance lasting long. Nor do I expect your current stay to last much longer, some one will complain and you'll be banned again.
I won't be ****ing off but you will when you're inevitably banned once more.
It won't be me making the complaint , I get a certain amount of entertainment out of pulling your chain.

Are you in the South East of Spain? I have some friends there ,you may be surprised by who I know.

BTW . Your knowledge of geography is as shaky as your grasp on reality.

Thailand is in South East Asia not the "Far East":yep
Whose the "Moron" now?:deal

ps Are you sure you are in Spain and not Spalding?

Speak Soon Poxy:hi:
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As far as Bummy Davis goes I'm sure he would be one of the first to acknowledge the inherent racism in 60's America. Of course a **** kicking bumpkin like you would think that separate bath houses, buses, schools, hospitals and restaurants for blacks in the 20th century was normal. It goes with your infatuation with young girls and ladyboys in Bangkok, what with them being of a different race also. I dare say you brag to them about your " wealth " and tell them you can buy and sell them like goods and chattels.

The thought of all those little girls and lady boys getting you all excited is it. I'll bet they'll love a Fay. South East Asia, North East Asia, the Far East, it matters not a jot. They still cater for dirty old pensioners looking to pay for s.e.x. in a big way.

You sick fvck.

As for who you do or don't know in Spain I couldn't care less. You are nothing more than a legend in your own lunch time.

Now off you toddle like a good perv.
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The Mongoose · Oct 30, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

The bottomline is this:

You said Walcott is ,"an all time great heavyweight".

I say he isn't and challenged you, or anybody else, to produce a heavyweight list by a respected boxing writer that has Walcott's name on it.
You haven't done so, and neither has anyone else.
The reason for that is simple no such list exists.

Being a Hall of Famer is meaningless ,as is the IBRO Hall of Fame and being a lineal champion means what?

Carnera was lineal champion .atsch

Nobody is going to agree on a universal list, I know that , but thanks for stating the obvious.
What you will find though is the same names will regularly turn up in any list of great heavyweight champions.
eg Ali,Louis,Holmes,etc

On none of those lists will you see the name Jersey Joe Walcott, I know it, you know it and so does everybody else ,so why not stop embarrasing yourself?
Admit you got a bit carried away with your assessment of Walcott, " as an all time great heavyweight " and we can move on.

Otherwise you are just demeaning yourself to no good purpose. Let me know when you have an article ,or a list that describes Walcott as an all time great heavyweight.
Meantime, I won't be holding my breath.:bart
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He's been respectfully put on lots of top Heavyweight lists, but "top 10" as cut off point for greatness in the divison is as laughable as it is arguable.

RING magazine's top 20 Heavyweights from 1998.

1.Muhammad Ali
2.Joe Louis
3.Evander Holyfield
4.George Foreman
5.Larry Holmes
6.Rocky Marciano
7.Sonny Liston
8.Joe Frazier
9.Jack Johnson
10.Jack Dempsey
11.Ezzard Charles
12.Jim Jeffries
13.Jersey Joe Walcott
14.Mike Tyson
15.Gene Tunney
16.Harry Wills
17.Sam Langford
18.John L. Sullivan
19.Max Schmeling
20.Max Baer

Any of these 20 men could be aruged as all time greats in my book and most others. They are the most common names though Lewis gets mentioned now. I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology.

The Mongoose · Oct 30, 2014

Herb Goldman's top 25 list from 1987

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Sonny Liston
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Joe Louis
7. Rocky Marciano
8. Harry Wills
9. George Foreman
10. Joe Frazier
11. Mike Tyson
12. Joe Jeannette
13. Jersey Joe Walcott
14. Max Baer
15. Max Schmeling
16. George Godfrey
17. Elmer Ray
18. James J. Jeffries
19. Sam McVey
20. Gerry Cooney
21. Ernest Terrell
22. Cleveland Williams
23. James J. Corbett
24. Floyd Patterson
25. Jimmy Young

Bummy Davis · Oct 30, 2014

The Mongoose said: ↑

Herb Goldman's top 25 list from 1987

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Sonny Liston
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Joe Louis
7. Rocky Marciano
8. Harry Wills
9. George Foreman
10. Joe Frazier
11. Mike Tyson
12. Joe Jeannette
13. Jersey Joe Walcott
14. Max Baer
15. Max Schmeling
16. George Godfrey
17. Elmer Ray
18. James J. Jeffries
19. Sam McVey
20. Gerry Cooney
21. Ernest Terrell
22. Cleveland Williams
23. James J. Corbett
24. Floyd Patterson
25. Jimmy Young
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Mongoose you are doing a great job educating the ignorant but dont expect acknowledgment from them. I remember a well respected underground boxing writer Malcolm"Flash Gordon rating Walcott very high back in the 70's and I am in agreement with him now, Walcott was the ultimate spoiler in his division ...great Job

Seamus · Oct 30, 2014

apollack said: ↑

The Jersey Joe Walcott that Marciano fought would have beaten the living hell out of Douglas. Not even a contest. Walcott was one of those rare guys who not only aged well, but actually got better with age, because he combined his vast experience with his tremendous physical gifts. Just take a look at his body. Even in the pre-steroid era his body pushing 40 was better than most 20 year old heavys today. So was his pace, speed, and snap.

I can throw 70 punches a round against a guy who is throwing one punch at a time, not punching all that much, and getting hit with most everything I throw. Tyson was a dead man in there. There is a reason why Douglas is a one-hit wonder and never looked that good before or after - Tyson. If you are in there with a guy who is ill-prepared, he makes you look twice as good. And the joke of it all is that even as a dead man walking, Tyson still managed to deck him, and Douglas still barely beat the count.

The Tyson that fought that night was not superior to Marciano in any way. He was as slow as molasses with both offense and defense, and his pace and punch selection were garbage.

Marciano threw nonstop and all the time. That was exactly Holyfield's formula to beat Douglas - keep a fast pace. And you saw what that does to Douglas - he falls all to pieces. Holyfield's trainers saw that Tyson kept a very slow pace, and their plan was very simple - work and keep him working. Tyson's punch output in that fight was way less than any other fight. HBO showed his average punch output compared to others was much lower. Yes Marciano's ducking, countering, and footwork was way faster than the Tyson that showed up on that night. He would keep Douglas defending all the time, unlike the Tyson on that night. Marciano would slip and slide in an wail away to the body and head in nonstop fashion, and Douglas did not have the heart to deal with that. He's a one-hit wonder for a reason.
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Let me firstly thank you for sticking to the subject here...

What separates Douglas on this night is that he was trained and had legs underneath. His movement and footwork were excellent over the first half dozen rounds, keeping the undertrained Tyson at distance and allowing him to peter out. Tyson was not throwing because he couldn't reach Douglas not because he didn't intend to throw. He resortsed to racing in squared up because he couldn't reach Douglas in proper stance. And Douglas was putting on a Master Class with that jab, long and snappy, doubling up and setting up his straight right. With footwork and that jab, controlling distance and turning the action at will, he is able to take the fight out of Tyson before Tyson can do his damage.

For all his heart and focus, I just don't see Marciano covering half the distance that Mike did and getting into range before so much damage has accumulated that his face would be a mess or that one of those right hands would have him on his ass.

mcvey · Oct 30, 2014

Foxy 01 said: ↑

mcvey said: ↑

As far as Bummy Davis goes I'm sure he would be one of the first to acknowledge the inherent racism in 60's America. Of course a **** kicking bumpkin like you would think that separate bath houses, buses, schools, hospitals and restaurants for blacks in the 20th century was normal. It goes with your infatuation with young girls and ladyboys in Bangkok, what with them being of a different race also. I dare say you brag to them about your " wealth " and tell them you can buy and sell them like goods and chattels.

The thought of all those little girls and lady boys getting you all excited is it. I'll bet they'll love a Fay. South East Asia, North East Asia, the Far East, it matters not a jot. They still cater for dirty old pensioners looking to pay for s.e.x. in a big way.

You sick fvck.

As for who you do or don't know in Spain I couldn't care less. You are nothing more than a legend in your own lunch time.

Now off you toddle like a good perv.
Click to expand...

My ex Wife and I were committed enough to an end to prejudice based on colour we both joined the ANC whilst Mandela was incarcerated on Robben Island.
I went on demos and rallies to that end, my closest friend's Wife Almas ,is an Ismaili Indian , we spend Xmas day with them every year.
My drinking partner at the week ends in my local is Charlie, a black man from Montserrat and a cricket nut.
So you could not be further from the truth.

Tell us ,what the **** have you ever done to protest against racial inequality?
What stance have you ever taken?
How many demos/rallies have you been on?

I told you I am going to Thailand with my partner ,but it doesn't seem to have registered with you.

Not surprising considering you don't even know where Thailand is you sad buffoon.

You must have felt a total **** when I pointed out to you that Thailand is in South East Asia NOT the Far East .
Being publicly humiliated would not be a pleasant experience I would guess , but perhaps you are used to it?
You are still projecting your ***ual fantasises in to my holiday,
"little girls and Lady Boys"?

Tell us ,do you toss yourself off as you write this ****?
I wouldn't have the pictures in your head for a million pounds!:nono

I had you pegged from the start.
You've never boxed and you are certainly no scrapper,anyone who can handle themselves and is used to tear- ups doesn't make empty grandstand plays from the safety of their PC solely for the benefit of others
You are a pathetic fantasist ,with a unhealthy pre-occupation with child ***, and as far as fighting is concerned you're about as dangerous as a Gerbil.
Click to expand...

Unforgiven · Oct 30, 2014

And I thought my posts were silly.

The Mongoose · Oct 30, 2014

For you, the day I graced your thread was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Thursday.

Wass1985 · Oct 30, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

Foxy 01 said: ↑

My ex Wife and I were committed enough to an end to prejudice based on colour we both joined the ANC whilst Mandela was incarcerated on Robben Island.
I went on demos and rallies to that end, my closest friend's Wife Almas ,is an Ismaili Indian , we spend Xmas day with them every year.
My drinking partner at the week ends in my local is Charlie, a black man from Montserrat and a cricket nut.
So you could not be further from the truth.

Tell us ,what the **** have you ever done to protest against racial inequality?
What stance have you ever taken?
How many demos/rallies have you been on?

I told you I am going to Thailand with my partner ,but it doesn't seem to have registered with you.

Not surprising considering you don't even know where Thailand is you sad buffoon.

You must have felt a total **** when I pointed out to you that Thailand is in South East Asia NOT the Far East .
Being publicly humiliated would not be a pleasant experience I would guess , but perhaps you are used to it?
You are still projecting your ***ual fantasises in to my holiday,
"little girls and Lady Boys"?

Tell us ,do you toss yourself off as you write this ****?
I wouldn't have the pictures in your head for a million pounds!:nono

I had you pegged from the start.
You've never boxed and you are certainly no scrapper,anyone who can handle themselves and is used to tear- ups doesn't make empty grandstand plays from the safety of their PC solely for the benefit of others
You are a pathetic fantasist ,with a unhealthy pre-occupation with child ***, and as far as fighting is concerned you're about as dangerous as a Gerbil.
Click to expand...

McVey aren't you a certain someone who arranged to have a fight at an airport of all places?? :rofl:rofl
Click to expand...

frankenfrank · Oct 30, 2014

If I had to choose less than 10 fighters whose "diehard" fan's average intelligence (and also honesty including self honesty) are the lowest, they would be:

Floyd Mayweather Jr
Rocco Markegiano
Roy Jones Jr
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Jack Dempsey
Ray Leonard

Hard to decide whose fans are the least intelligent and whose fans are the least honest.

dishonorable mentions to Gene Tunney, Wladimir Klitschko, Lennox Lewis , Miguel Tyson , Felix Trinidad and Pernell Whitaker

The Mongoose · Oct 30, 2014

Bummy Davis said: ↑

Mongoose you are doing a great job educating the ignorant but dont expect acknowledgment from them. I remember a well respected underground boxing writer Malcolm"Flash Gordon rating Walcott very high back in the 70's and I am in agreement with him now, Walcott was the ultimate spoiler in his division ...great Job
Click to expand...

Futch called him one of the finest technicans in the history of the divison.

And your right, Malcom "Flash" Gordon said Walcott was #3 on his best nights.

He's listed in multiple top 20 lists. He's a great heavyweight, end of the discussion.

Halfordscream · Oct 30, 2014

frankenfrank said: ↑

If I had to choose less than 10 fighters whose "diehard" fan's average intelligence (and also honesty including self honesty) are the lowest, they would be:

Floyd Mayweather Jr
Rocco Markegiano
Roy Jones Jr
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Jack Dempsey
Ray Leonard

Hard to decide whose fans are the least intelligent and whose fans are the least honest.

dishonorable mentions to Gene Tunney, Wladimir Klitschko, Lennox Lewis , Miguel Tyson , Felix Trinidad and Pernell Whitaker
Click to expand...

If you are going to make an honest appraisal you'd have to have ESB Calzaghe fans at the absolute top of your list. Never seen such a modest recent athletic talent - without the cover of primitive out dated taping techniques - considered to be as "extraordinary" and top shelf.

mcvey · Oct 30, 2014

Wass1985 said: ↑

mcvey said: ↑

McVey aren't you a certain someone who arranged to have a fight at an airport of all places?? :rofl:rofl
Click to expand...

I don't usually read your posts but I've made an exception with this one.I arranged, or more specifically tried to arrange to meet Mendoza who challenged me to a fight,he was coming to the UK for a holiday.
I accepted and sent him 2 pms and then, after no response from him , made a public thread asking him which flight and airport he would be arriving on and to.
He did not reply although he posted on this site the day the thread was posted. Heathrow and Gatwick airports are about an hour from me. I was up for it he was not, despite being 30years plus younger than me
He was not heard of again until he was safely back in the States.
He then proceeded to lie his head off saying he hadn't received the pm's or seen the thread.
Those are the facts ,and I take oath on them on my dead parents grave.
That is why I despise him today,because he is a liar and a coward. It's old news now , but if you're sufficiently interested,I suppose you could trawl back and find the posts.
If you think this has a similarity with Foxy beating his chest and talking darkly about ,"no witnesses and no rules", then I have to say you are mistaken. You've been polite in your post ,and I hope I have reciprocated?
Click to expand...

mcvey · Oct 30, 2014

Bummy Davis said: ↑

Mongoose you are doing a great job educating the ignorant but dont expect acknowledgment from them. I remember a well respected underground boxing writer Malcolm"Flash Gordon rating Walcott very high back in the 70's and I am in agreement with him now, Walcott was the ultimate spoiler in his division ...great Job
Click to expand...

Did Flash ,at any time describe Walcott as
"an all time great heavyweight"?
Did he list him in his all time top ten at heavyweight?
You guys keep patting each other on the back and avoiding the question.

I know you are incapable of admitting you are wrong.
Ignorant is a dangerouus word for one who doesn't know the correct spelling for
Duelling or Behaviour. Point made I think.:good

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