Marciano v Tokyo James Douglas?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Oct 27, 2014.



  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Rocky decimates him.
     
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  2. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Douglas was really a one fight wonder in against a sub-par Tyson on his best night- Remember Evander took him out with one punch......Buster had a good night but it would be a long night vs Marciano who I pick by KO over Busty
     
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I love the performance Douglas produced against Tyson. on that night the game plan was perfect, he was able to nullify Tyson who became a very confused young man very early in the fight. Everything Mike tried to do Douglas had a punch waiting for him first. The more he was getting hit the less Tyson knew what to do . Once that happened everything fell into place for Douglas. He just got better and better as Tyson worsened.

    But Marciano would not become a confused young man. He thrived in a fire fight so he won’t be going into shock. He was used to it. Rocky has too much natural instinct to lose his way and a good corner to turn to if it did get tough. Rocky always fired back and while he’s firing back he’s always in the fight. His spirit would break Buster before his punches would.

    People forget that what drove Buster on that night was the ineptitude of Tyson. It was easier to drag himself off the floor knowing he already had the fight won. That wasn’t the case against Holyfield and that won’t be the case against Rocky.
     
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  4. Greb & Papke 707

    Greb & Papke 707 Active Member Full Member

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    Couldn’t you make the argument tho that buster only won because Tyson didn’t train? That wouldn’t be the case with Marciano, not saying that the Rock would definitely win, but Douglas wouldn’t catch Rocky out of shape or condition
     
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Tyson trained as hard for Douglas as he had throughout his reign- he just wasn’t used to getting hit so much. That’s what messed him up. Everything he had done so far was working while he wasn’t getting hit back. His whole reign he got tagged once or twice with single shots. Here, he’s getting beaten to the punch for the first time and he really didn’t know what to do about it.
     
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    You need to research a lot more. It's common knowledge Tyson had a terrible camp amomg other things.

    • Four days before the fight, Dave Anderson of the New York Times wrote the following:
    Considering his competition, the only person who can beat Tyson is Tyson himself. By not training. By not caring. By not surrounding himself with experienced cornermen. Chances are, Tyson will quickly swat James (Buster) Douglas into submission. . . . Even so, reports from Tokyo of Tyson's training are enough to question if the champion is sabotaging his own reign. While sparring with Greg Page two weeks ago, he was floored by a right hand. Over the weekend he was described as "sluggish" in another sparring session.
     
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  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Same story’s were rife when Tyson fought Tucker. He was telling people he wanted to retire. He was heavier and partying so hard he was losing lumps of hair from his head for that fight.
    It’s well documented.

    He was on the verge of quitting before the Tony Tucker 'Ultimate' fight”

    A month before one of the most famous fights in his career, in 1987, he almost quit altogether. Tyson says he disappeared from training camp and partied in Albany for two weeks straight.

    In a nightclub, he told friends he was going to retire. But his manager, Jimmy Jacobs, called him and said that they would be sued if he backed out of the fight, talking him out of it. He says: "I should have retired then but I didn't have control of my own life." He went on to beat Tucker to become undisputed heavyweight champion of the world.”


    The Bruno camp was supposed to be as bad.

    I recon, against Douglas, Tyson was no less prepared to beat a fighter as he was for several other fights Where people love his performance.

    His corner was not as inexperienced as people make out. Arron Snowell had been with Tim Witherspoon for years. Worked with Julian Jackson. He was the architect in Frankie Randall beating the great Julio Cesar Chavez.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    The point is it's sure going to catch up to you. Was he dropped in sparring prior to the other fights? Were there reports of how sluggish he was leading right into the fight?

    His corner were terrible on the night. They didn't even have an endswell for goodness sake.
     
  9. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    @choklab : The Douglas fight came 8 months after Williams, the longest inactivity adding the Bruno bout.

    Tyson fought Tucker two months and a day after Thomas at his usual periodicity!
     
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  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Buster Douglas had fought on the last 3 cards Tyson had and his opponents on paper were pretty good. McCall, Berbick and Mike Williams were good enough to fight the last three men Tyson fought, and in meeting them Douglas had clocked up 27 meaningful rounds to Tyson’s 7 mostly one way traffic rounds.

    Tyson was a victim of his successes. He had been winning too easily against men half beat before he got into the ring with them.

    Holmes had not won a fight for almost 3 years. Since Larry last won a fight Tyson had amassed 30-0 run of a 32-0 career, winning 5 world title fights.

    Pinklon was 3-1 Over a period where Tyson had 26 fights and beaten 3 world class opponents.

    Tubbs had not beat a world class opponent since weeks after Tyson started his professional career some three years and 31 fights earlier. The last rated Guy Tubbs fought beat him some two years earlier.

    Since Frank Bruno last Fought, Tyson had defended his title 3 times. This was because Frank had been inactive for over a year! Even so, Bruno had not fought at championship level for 3 years.

    I can go on and on.

    Since Spinks became a heavyweight Tyson had fought 26 times to Michaels 4 fights. Tyson had won 7 championship fights and beat 6 heavyweight champions. Spinks had only fought one. Since Spinks was last in a ring Tyson had fought 4 times.


    There were no gate keepers in the division for challengers to meet in order to get a title shot. The contenders simply went stale waiting their turn for the champion to get to them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  11. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Member of the PC Fan Club Full Member

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    Chok you were arguing about comparable Tyson training habits against Tucker and Douglas, don´t miss the topic.
    Its not about the boxers, its about Tysons habits!
    And he DID fight frequently, in fact with only two months between against Tucker. His absense after Spinks was clearly significantly divergent from his usual fighing routine.

    Also on behalf of others: Stop sidetracking the topic.
     
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  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It was the same for Douglas. Buster fought on the same card in the same ring as Tyson the last three times. Their routine had been the same. Four times in a row they fought the same night.

    Buster Douglas having his wife leave him and his mother die must have been as disruptive for him as any of the self inflicted stuff that always went in with Tyson.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  13. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne's life coach. Full Member

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    Douglas would give any HW trouble on that night in Tokyo. We all know about the death of his mother and all the other factors but Douglas attained a zen that night. Some people call it the zone, firing on all cylinders, whatever you want to call it, he reached the absolute peak of what HE was capable of that night. Douglas by round 8 ko.
     
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  14. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    I know it, you know it, it is just the desperate few that bring up the Holyfield fight, where Douglas had no interest, as a barometer.
    They just cannot bring themselves to admit that Marciano could possibly lose.
    Very sad.
     
  15. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member banned Full Member

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    Tyson was exposed that night, no answer for those right hand leads. Douglas wasn't magic, he was fat, even when he was in shape, a basic boxer, he just led with his right hand and god forbid...threw an uppercut every now and then. It was crazy, Tyson just couldn't figure out such a complex riddle, even with his corner rubbing condoms on his face. I don't do sarcasm, I'm sorry, Douglas was not that good. I know it makes Tyson fans feel better to imagine Buster Douglas as this monster who would exorcise any demon the universe spun on him on that night, but the truth is...man, Tyson was ready to be took by anyone that could lead with a right and string a combo together, plant their feet before moving, I know it's crazy, such complex and athletic demanding concepts.

    But anyway, Marciano knocks out another fat guy. The modernist talks about how if Douglas was in shape he was only 175 pounds and actually smaller than Marciano in the ring that night. And who was Douglas anyway...well prior to Marcinao beating him around the ring with legal blows and fouls alike, he was a journeyman who lost to Jesse Ferguson and that glass jawed freak show, Mike White. His best win was over fat nobodies and some sparring partner. Marciano was clearly ducking a rematch with Tony Tucker.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019