Marciano v Tokyo James Douglas?

This is true, I love Busters performance. I really do. He certainly would trouble any champion.

But I don’t think he would confuse all of them as much as Tyson. The more he got hit the less he knew what to do. Tyson was not used to getting hit so much. Tyson got worse and worse. He became a sitting duck of ineptitude because he just wasn’t used to it.

 

No he didnt he was banging hookers leading up to the fight.

 

Douglas beat Tyson with the basic one two, jab right cross.Who ever said Douglas was 175lbs in shape that's a crock of ****"
,Douglas on his form that one night beats Marciano imo,and he would be a very tough nights work for anyone else!

 

Tyson was always banging hookers. It was his hobby.


I don’t doubt Tyson. He is an ATG fighter. But I do recognise and understand how he was able to lose to Douglas. Tyson is a greater fighter than Douglas. full stop. I just understand how he, or anybody, like that is acceptably able to lose to him.

Tyson was the best fighter in the world. But like Joe Louis, he was also the best fighter in the world getting all the breaks. Every opponent was lined up for him in the order he needed them at just the right time. This meant he was achieving a very rare thing. He getting a no expense spared opportunity to look his full potential each and every time.

But he was also getting a path of least resistance. He was getting all the right fighters, he was getting them all when it suited him.

I have studied his career to come up with a realistic theory that fits much better than that “Tyson simply did not train against Douglas”. That is far too simplistic.

Under a certain set of circumstances, Douglas was always good enough to beat a champion like that ...even a champion in his best possible condition.

Fighting better fighters makes you better. A fighter improves only when he’s fighting men as good or better than he is. Douglas was getting fights against men as good or better than he was. None were as good as Tyson. But in beating them in more competitive and longer fights than Tyson was getting seasoned him up and raised his pedigree over a period of time while Tyson was fighting men that were not as good or better than he was. Tyson was getting opponents that were half beat just getting into the ring with him. Inactive, intimidated challengers and winning. Whilst Douglas getting men looking to beat him up and winning. So Douglas was toughening up and Tyson was softening up. And throw in the fact that Douglas had fought on all 3 of Tyson’s last cards and had worked out a gameplan to beat Tyson... I think this is the answer.

The matchmaking suited Douglas because he had been just as active. Providing Tyson did not have an answer to his gameplan the 27 rounds of competitive boxing Douglas had over Tyson’s 7 rounds during the same period would really come into play. And they did. Tyson did not have an answer and he did not have enough competitive rounds of experience to draw upon.

You can get the best fighter in the world beat under the right set of circumstances. Quality of opposition, ring activity and gameplan are crucial components to overcoming a better fighter.

I have come to believe Archie Moore might have beaten Rocky Marciano, Cooney might have beaten Larry Holmes, Foreman might have beaten Ali, Joe Bugner might have beaten Muhammad Ali, Frank Bruno might have beat Tim Witherspoon if you could control who they all fought before their fights happened.

It’s got nothing to do with off nights. Or hookers.

 

Douglas was in a similar position to Honeyghan when he fought Curry and he turned in a comparable performance.

On THAT night, near enough everyone would have had problems.
Not the following fight.....THAT night.

 

Yes I agree with you for once. That’s is another example of a lesser fighter beating a greater fighter.

 

The right set of circumstances were,1. Tyson did not train properly.2 He underestimated Douglas .3 He had a **** corner 4. Douglas was in fully focused mode and on a mission. Hence Tyson underperformed and Douglas performed to the very limit of his potential ,and all the rest is just so much garbage! NB I could name 20 welterweights off the top of my head who would beat the best Honeyghan who ever ducked through ropes.
Curry was weight drained.The Curry of the Starling or Jones fights beats the **** out of Lloyd.

 

You are forgetting the right hand leads, they were important in confusing Tyson and breaking his rhythm. I would bet money that once Maricano puts Douglas to sleep, his detractors would make such a claim as they have made similar claims on his site. Such as Joe Louis' 35 pound weight advantage on a tall muscular frame being an illusion and Marciano was actually the bigger guy. It's a crock..I know.

Sure, that's your opinion and I have mine. I don't think Douglas was particular special, he just had certain tools that exposed an unfocused Tyson's programming and god awful corner. Douglas also didn't fold where as many would have when Tyson hurt him. That's important.

 

Louis was a statue against Marciano.Douglas was mobile.Louis busted up Rocky's face with what he had left ,a jab.Douglas would make a mess of Rocky's tender skin.

 

Did you think of all this by yourself or did you overhear somebody offering a simplistic answer to somebody new to boxing ?

All of this is total cliche! The garbage that reporters had to come up with to explain how they picked Tyson to win to folks they convinced was superman.

Tyson won fights with the same training and the same corner. It was the first time somebody seasoned (with the right game plan) beat him to the punch who had actually fought regularly.

 

Sometimes there’s just no beating a fighter on a certain night.
It’s like all the stars align for them that ONE night.
When everything they worked for all there life finally comes together.
There was no beating Louis when he ko’d Schmelling, Cooney when he beat Norton, Tyson when he destroyed Spinks. Hagler eating up Hearns.
There are countless examples and not just at championship level we’ve all seen it.
That night in Japan Buster would not be denied he totally believed in himself from start to finish. It was his time and as it turned out his moment. That was it for him he was never the same again he had ‘done it’

 

It's documented that Tyson did not take this fight seriously,nor did he train properly.
No other reasons are needed.Your amateur psycho analysis is a just a crock of crap!
You haven't a ****ing clue about his training in Tokyo, so don't pretend you do!
Douglas did nothing different that the likes of Tucker didn't, its just that Tyson wasn't as prepared for the fight and Douglas had the self belief to pull it off.If you don't know that ,you don't know **** all about boxing.Which , judging by the comments on your posts, is the general opinion on you anyway.

 

With Captain Cliche? What’s the point?

 

Douglas had more than self belief to pull it off. He had 27 rounds of more competitive action during the same time Tyson fought just 7. He also had the right gameplan.. he knew what Tyson was going to do before he did it. and Tyson had literally no answer to that. Wherever his kisser was Buster had a punch on it.

Tyson could have been the best prepared he had been, he still would have got confused as soon as what he was trying wasn’t working. He was just a young kid.

Douglas knew what Tyson was going to do before he did it. That’s a huge advantage.

 

Here educate yourself .

On January 8, 1990, I got aboard a plane to fly to Tokyo. Kicking and screaming. I didn’t want to fight; all I was interested in then was partying and ****ing women.” And so begins [url]Mike Tyson’s recollections[/url] of one of the most famous upsets in the history of sport.

Most bookmakers refused to take bets for the fight. The Mirage, the only casino in Las Vegas willing to offer odds to punters, rated Douglas as a 42-1 underdog. They didn’t seem to care about making money from anyone stupid enough to back Douglas, but even the most punch-drunk gamblers in Vegas would have avoided those teasing odds. If they had known more about Tyson’s lax preparations, they might have stumped up a few more dollars.

“I didn’t consider Buster Douglas much of a challenge,” remembers Tyson. “I didn’t even bother watching any of his fights on video. I had easily beaten everybody who had knocked him out.”

Not only did Tyson not bother to watch Douglas in action, but he barely
trained for the fight, bar a few sparring sessions with Greg Page. Ever on the make, Don King saw a way to earn an extra buck or two out of Tyson in the build-up to the fight and opened one of the sessions to the public, charging $60-a-head for a two-round showcase in the gym. Page gave Tyson such a runaround that King had to drag his man out of the ring after a single round, shooing the paying public out of the gym. Tyson ignored the warning signs, deeming Douglas “not worth sweating for”. He was sleepwalking into the most unpredictable defeat in history.
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Mike Tyson on his way down. Photograph: Colorsport/REX

Tyson had no interest in sparring, but he built up a sweat with the local women. David Haye famously refrained from sex for six weeks before his fights, explaining his reticence with the mantra: “Find a lion that hasn’t had some food for a while, and you’ve got a dangerous cat.” Tyson saw things differently: “Besides having sex with the maids, I was seeing this young Japanese girl who I had had sex with the last time I was in Japan. Robin [his wife] would go out shopping and I would go downstairs to the back of the hotel where this young girl had a room... So that was my training for Douglas.”

Tyson was nonchalant about the fight but he was determined to make the weight. Having arrived in Japan 30 pounds too heavy, he had bet King that he could slim down on time. On the eve of the fight, he weighed in at a respectable 220 pounds, pocketed his bonus and looked to make merry: “The day before the fight I also had two maids at the same time. And then two more girls, one at a time, the night before the fight.”
Tyson is under no illusions about his complete failure to turn up for the fight: “It wasn’t the usual Tyson going into the ring. It was obvious to anyone who was watching that I really didn’t want to be there. The fight started and I fought horribly.”
By the end of the fifth round, his left eye was in bad shape. He went back to his corner to discover that his team hadn’t bothered to bring an ice pack or any endswell to relieve the pain and reduce the bulge. They filled up a latex glove – “what looked like an extra-large condom with ice water” – and held it against his podgy face. It didn’t work.

The one-eyed Tyson trudged back into the centre of the ring, where he traded punches and expended more energy for a couple of rounds. Things were looking ominous by the eighth, but then he threw a trademark upper-cut with his right and knocked Douglas off his feet.

That should have been it. [url]No defeat. No surrender[/url]. No upset. No humiliation. No consequences for treating the fight with a haughty disrespect and ignoring the merits of an opponent who had nothing to lose and everything to gain. But the timekeeper was Japanese and the referee was Mexican, and they couldn’t understand each other well enough to count to 10 together.
If there is cliche on this thread it's you. The same as on any Frazier,Foreman or Liston threads! .
Wake up to yourself, everybody else has!!!!!