Marciano v Valdes

He get's a pass from me ,C*ckell was ranked ,maybe fortuitously but ranked,none the less.It wasn't however a very profitable promotion despite what Janitor has tried to say.
It is postulated that Weill wanted no part of Valdes,I seriously doubt that Marciano ever gave a f*ck who he fought!

 

Baker and Nino would fit right into the elite of the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and even the 1990s.

And Archie Moore was better heavyweight than both of them because he beat both of them.

The ideas of what makes a great heavyweight changed in later periods but we can't judge by today's trends. Back then being "good and big" was not enough of an advantage as being "great".

Still, to satisfy those who subscribe only to the modern ideas of what a heavyweight should be I wish Rocky had of fought Nino or Baker. The trouble is if he had then a better contender like Moore might have been avoided.

 

I don't understand, Rocky dosnt qualify even though he didn't avoid Nino?

I wish he fought him but I don't believe there is evidence Nino was avoided?

Sure Cokkell went ahead of Valdes but all Nino had to do was win an elimination.

Don't forget Ninos deserved high ranking was also balanced with a resume packed with losses against Baker, Moore and Johnson before the one win over Charles that placed him so high.

 

Agreed.

 

I'm not so sure Rockys management avoided Nino. If valdes won an official eliminatior and was still ignored that would be a different matter. Without official eliminations a champion is only obliged to meet a top ten rated contender. Today a champion can take voluntary defences between mandatory defences. In those days challengers were taken from the ratings unless a logical contender had been found. There's pretty much no difference between management selecting #2 over #1.

If you put the resumes of Cokkell and Nino together I don't think at that time there really is that big a difference between the two.

I think people can be too quick to blame a champion. I defend Patterson for not meeting Folley/machen and I defend Larry Holmes for not fighting Page because I believe the time line and the rationale for these omissions adds up in their favour.

 

Thirty seven years old 6'1.5" 200lbs,[ in his prime,] Louis is trotted out by Rockista's as some kind of proof that Marciano could handle class superheavyweights,the fact that they have to resort to such desperate measures just highlights the fact that there is no proof one way or another that he could ,or couldn't.

 

It's possible.

 

In an exhibition match in Texas on march 14th 1950 Joe Louis knocked Nino Valdes spark out in one round. Nino was a pro of 8 years and was his nations champion at the time so this was no novice Louis laid out.

I think it's safe to say 1951 Joe Louis still had enough to be favoured to beat both Nino valdes and bob Baker.

 

Have you proof of this ko?Louis' autobiography does not list it,it says they had one exhibition on Feb 7th in St Petersburgh which went the distance.
It lists 23 exhibitions that Louis gave in1950 none were inTexas, and only one ended inside the distance.Against Walter Haefer in Rio De Janeiro
A couple of months before the date you listed Valdes was beaten by journeyman Archie McBride so,even if it happened, it wouldn't mean too much.
Edited to say I found it on CBZ.

Mar 14 Nino Valdes Houston, Tx EX 1 -Louis knocked Valdes out

Valdes didnt really hit his stride until 53.

 

Yes that's where I found it on the cyberboxing zone too.

Archie Mcbride was pretty darn good. He was managed by Bud Schulberg and trained by Whitey Bimstein who only worked with good fighters. I have an article about mcbride written by Bud.

Archie Mcbride beat Willie Besmanoff weeks after Willie beat Bob Baker. Mcbride also beat Satterfeild who did beat Baker.

Nino beat Mcbride in a return fight. Mcbride was always a good kind of level. Altogether he held his own with Karl Mildenburger, Alex miteff and went the distance with hurricane Jackson and Ingo Johansson,

Nat Fleischer wrote of Mcbride ahead of his fight with Ingo Johansson:

"Mcbride is the best possible opponent for Johansson. The swede is an unknown quantity this side of the Atlantic but as we know Mcbrides qualifications we'll we will get a clearer appreciation after this fight of what Johansson is good for"