Marciano vs Ali: Great fight or mismatch?

Would be a tough fight for Ali. Look at how Fraziers pressure got to Ali or even Chuvalo who put Ali in the hospital for three days.If Chuvalo put him in the hospital for three days and the way Frazier teed off on him Ali would be in for a tough ruff fight and his rope a dope would not save hime either it would just get worse and worse for Ali as this fight wore on.

Would be a chance of Ali getting his jaw crashed to bits with him being prone to broken jaws and Marciano having bone breaking power.

 

pressure and power an unorthodox rhythm would make this a very tough fight for Ali...who wins against ATG's is only a guess...Ali had a easier time against the big slow guys than he did against the pressure fighters

I think highly of Ali as I do of Marciano but this is a very competitive battle

 

Ali KO 8 in a weird, difficult fight.

 

I'd like a source on that. Never heard that before. He wasn't more than a night in hospital after any of the Fraziers fight and not at all after Foreman, but three days after effing Chuvalo? Have a hard time believing that.

Even the thing about Ali ****ing blood afterwards, I've only heard coming from Chuvalo himself. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, though, after all the low blows Chuvalo got away with.

But three days in hospital? After Zaire he was up talking to people all night, even after Manila he went to dinner with Marcos. But Chuvalo put him in hospital? Must be with a damaged urine bladder in that case.

 

The first fight with Chuvalo Ali was hospitalized and for three days if memory servs me correctly. And Ali came into that fight with his trunks high making some punches look low. Meanwhile Ali was fouling wth a lot of back handers and rabbit punches.

 

That was exactly the stipulation I was getting at ie getting a few cuts here and there doesn't make you a 'bleeder' especially when the couple times it occurred at top level was due to basically a reoccurrence of a previous injury which happens to a lot of fighters - that's certainly not what I class as a bleeder and I think most people would agree - you certainly can't base hypothesis for a match up on the likelihood of a cut occurring at all let alone one severe enough to end a fight - especially when we're talking classic fighters from different eras where referees were not so quick to stop fights on cuts anyway? Aside from that I think people exaggerate how quickly referees would've tended to stop fights on cuts in more recent years - the Holy Holmes being an example with a cut that was basically very similar to say Marciano's against Charles - there was never any imminent danger of Holy being stopped on that cut? And Marciano was dominating the Charles fight far more than Holy was Holmes?

 

As I said, I'd like a source on the three days in hospital. Otherwise I call it BS.

And if you can't see that Chuvalo punches low...

 

How about the little slow guys?

 

We are basing this match up on prime for prime, since Marciano's eye injury occurred BEFORE his prime it will always be a factor in his match ups. Both referees of the Simmons and second Charles fight state they would have been justified in stopping those fights,there is no argument about that.
Marciano also had 14 stitches in his head after the first Walcott fight. You are a bleeder if you sustain cuts in the amount of fights that Marciano did its as simple as that .
When or where the original propensity to cut came from is irrelevant and immaterial, it is there end of. I don't base a winning hypothesis for Ali on the likelihood that Ali would cut Marciano I base it on the fact that they are not on the same planet for boxing skills size,or speed.
Most people would not agree that Marciano was NOT a bleeder
and they included Emanuel Steward and Eddie Futch.


Ask yourself this question.
When they made the computer fight why did they stipulate that Marciano would be cut?
Do you think it was a random whim on the part of the computer?

 

Which and whose bones did Marciano break?

 

My idea of a bleeder is someone who get regular different cuts Marcaino's left eye cut was basically the same cut reopening which happens to a lot of fighters who are not and never were 'bleeders' but one bad cut at one stage can always be susceptible to reopening again at some point? and you may aswell discount the nose in he second fight - no one could genuinely say well Marciano is susceptible to having the front of his nose split in half!? So outside of those two injuries you had a cut on top of Marciano's head against Walcott which was clearly due to a clash of heads anyway - and minor nic's versus Louis and Moore but the cuts against Louis and Moore were literally that barely noticeable and had little to no effect on the fights themselves -'he didn't suffer cuts in his other 43 fights?? That's not the definition of a bleeder to me

 

Ali was HEAVILY hit to the body during his first bout with Chuvalo. I also heard Ali peed blood for weeks after the bout. I don't believe Iheard he was hospitalized. The body pounding he took in fight one led to his tactics in fight two which was to do everything possible to avoid getting hit to the body.

 

Its well documented some of the damage done with his fists. Bill Wilson's fractured skull, Lastarzas fractured arms, Rex Lanes sheared off teeth, Vingo fractured skull also sheared the teeth off of another boxer whos name escapes me at this time. Marciano could crash down Alis jaw and scramble his brain dont be mistaken, he had that much power.

 

It would have been a good fight, a lot of guys are right here, and Marciano was very good...but I favor Ali. Ali fought at least 10 guys who would have given Rocky the fight of his life, Ali would have breezed through Rocky's opponents 49-0
Ali said that Maricano was better than Frazier, and I think he was, he was also...different...

Frazier was 20 lbs. heavier, and Ali would have had no problem tying up a 185 lb. fighter on the inside. Marciano had four main advantages, power, heart, stamina and chin, against his opponents; against Ali only one was clearly in his favor.

 

Marciano's speed is highly underrated, in a film Chris Pontius of ESB created he slow down some footage and showed Marciano blocking with his elbows and countering, he was never pretty because of his short arms and catchers legs but when he rallied on the attack his punchers came quick enough. I think other than hyped stories the only time Marciano was in danger of being stopped was the Charles fight split nose from the elbow of Charles but Rocco did what he had to do to win.

Ali had the fast hands (so did Walcott and Charles) Ali did a job on Cooper with cuts but if Cooper did not get KO'd flat like he did against Patterson he would bleed at command so did Chuck Wepner (who I seen fight many times) Chuck was a bleeder. Quarry had a bit of cut but he was stopped because he was getting hit too much along the ropes because the cut was not significant.

None of these cuts Quarry had were as bad as Vitali vs Lennox and the ref let it bravely go on and Ive have seen some terrific cuts of late with the ref giving the fighter time. (so much for early stoppages these days unless other factors were involved)

That being said Marciano would probably be cut but I dont see a stoppage, the thing that is overlooked is that Marciano hit very hard with both hands and was hard to hit with 2-3 punches in a row with out getting hit back and it is Marciano's offense that is something that would keep Ali more on the defensive than offensive.

Ali was serious when he said Marciano was old but could still hurt you with his punches. I think once you entered a ring with Marciano from what his opponents expressed was that he hurt you with a tap, and he could do it with either hand and another factor was that he still hit with that power in round 15.

Ali was great, Marciano was great and I think he was far greater than Jones, 5"11 188lb he hit harder than Cooper 6' 185lbs, had better power and stamina and offense and possibly more awkward than Bonavena 5'10 204lbs, and I think he brought more to the table than 5'10 205lb Frazier in the FOTC (Frazier's prime) Marciano was harder to hit without getting hit back for one and Marciano had power in both hands and IMO a better chin.

Like I said its really hard to know how it pans out with ATG's but this is both men fighting the best they ever had to and not only skill and gift wise but intangibles like heart,will and brains

close fight and close series....neither man gets embarrassed