Marciano vs Frazier

Battle of the swarmers. This matchup always intrigued me. Granted, Frazier in his prime was a bit more than Rocky. However, Frazier was just a little thicker and probably had a tad more fat. The thing is, though, Marciano arguably had more power and definitely had better balanced power in both hands. Frazier has quicker hands and bob & weave is greatly designed to evade jabs/hooks. Marciano fights out of the crouch and can get low which makes him tough to hit. He always rolls his stomach out of that crouch. Frazier isn't a "jaber" but he would find it oddly difficult to try setting up his combinations with that punch. More so, Marciano would probably find a lot of his punches wide and missing. Marciano punches from all sorts of angles which makes it tough to deal with. His output can and was incredible at periods and this would be tough for Frazier to combat. Marciano would sometimes punch downwards and those shots could spell big trouble for Joe.

The matchup always intriuges me because Frazier, like Marciano was a workhouse. The thing is, though, Marciano is easily the better conditioned fighter who has provenly shown more output. Frazier on the other hand is patient and obviously durable (Which I do hold in some question) but is the more precise and quicker puncher. That left hook would be deadly but I don't see it landing on Marciano who fights low and to the right - maybe if Rocky isn't paying enough attention and he didn't have the best of reflexes.

Both have shown they can be put down, however I lean towards Marciano as being more durable. Jersey Joe had underrated single hand punching power and caught Marciano with the left hook that was lights out for Charles. Marciano didn't see it got up at 3. Marciano was a fighter we really never saw rubbery legged (Had immensely strong legs). Moore an incredible accurate and good puncher (Although 185 lbs) dropped a quick shot on Marciano that Rocky got up at 2 with. On the other hand, Bonevena had Frazier down with a big shot and then had him down again with just barely a punch and push that proved Frazier was still hurt. I won't go into the Foreman story is that brings an entirely different style synopsis

So who wins the war? Of course this is prime versus prime. So we're saying a pre Foreman Frazier and the best Rocky you like. All I know is that it would be a war. Marciano slightly shorter. He needs to do body work with Joe and Joe body banging him is dangerous to leaving him open. Marciano's balanced power and durability leave me to believe he comes out winning. Marciano mid to late TKO. Joe is far too tough to KO (As is Rocky).

Everyone talks as though Joe is out of his league and in the far better era. Scrap out his Ali win and his resume isn't all that much more impressive, in fact I think Rocky's might be slightly better. Ellis was a good boxer but hardly durable. He never fought Norton, Lyle, or Shavers (He was getting old then). Chuvalo was tough a made of steel but possessed little offense power to combat Joe or win a decision. Quarry was excellent and probably the best on his resume when knocking Ali off. Bonevena was a great fighter but he partied and didn't have the endurance, focus, nor enough tools to beat Joe. But he give him 2 tough decision fights. Besides, Bonevena took Joe the distance twice under Goldman who trained the Rock. Ali is a huge boost for Joe but imagine if Rocky had a chance for having a huge Ali spectacle. You can credit Joe but can't completely discredit the Rock for not having that ATG caliber of an opponent. So who you got?

 

You make some good points but better work-rate? Do you really believe this? Marciano had an unbelievable work-rate and unbelievable stamina. When he style altered his style from the lesser output slugger of 51 to the more aggressive swarmer with more output till 55 (Done so he wouldn't have any squeaker decisions).

I understand how you might see how Marciano couldn't land cleanly enough in comparison but the workrate comment really throws me a loof.

 

I've seen plenty tapes. The best or most active Frazier doesn't put a dent in an ATG output from Marciano. Have you seen Marciano vs Charles? He's punching like it's round 1 in the last round.

Best prediction. No sarcasm :bbb

 

Yes to 4 of those. I'm not doubting his stamina. I called him a workhouse but I feel that anyone can see with their on eyes that Marciano was the better conditioned fighter. Maybe others can settle this as we are definitely in disagreement.

Frazier admittedly got caught up in the glory of being champ. Nothing change Marciano and always kept pressing. After FOTC Frazier got a little lazier.

 

I tend to agree with this sentiment. I feel Rocky had trouble with the slick and technical boxers rather than the inside fighters/swarmers. Of course, bombers/sluggers like Liston & Foreman pose other style problem. But in terms of a Frazier or Dempsey type I feel Rocky has the edge.

 

Okay. I pulled out the old reel of Frazier v Bugner as I least remember that fight. Frazier definitely didn't have the stamina of a Marciano. It actually might be more on another level than I thought. Frazier is a workhouse, yes, but Frazier seemed a bit tired toward the end and definitely wasn't as fresh as he was in round 1. Marciano is unbelievably strong and has the same punching power from round 1 to 15. Marciano definitely edges Frazier in stamina and in workrate. The soft hitting Bugner actually might have had Frazier hurt and he had Frazier on the ropes on more than one occasion in the fight. It seemed like Joe took some breathers during parts of the late rounds.

What Marciano fights have you seen out of curiosity?