Marciano vs Frazier

I seen Walcott 1 on youtube and about half of the Moore fight on ESPN Classic. I don't recall Marciano taking much damage in the 12th, but I'll check it out again. I'll also check the Louis fight.

 

It was one of Moore's worse showings because 21 year old Patterson was that much better at that time. Even Rocky stated that on his TV Show "Main Event."

Charles wasn't the same after he was KO'ed by Walcott in their 3rd bout. In their next bout a lot of people thought Charles won, BUT it was close, never the less. Both Charles and Walcott were past their best days. If not, why would Walcott retire after his 2nd match with Rocky? He still had a Big name, and would have made a lot of money fighting on.

As far as Cockell goes, he beat Matthews 3 times and LaStarza. He was also stopped 6 times before he fought Rocky, including a bout with Randy Turpin, a Middleweight, in which he out weighed Turpin by 12 pounds. He was dropped 3 times in the bout. He was also stopped another 2 times within a year after fighting Rocky and then retired.[FONT=&quot]

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Good Post!

 

Excellent rebutal....

 

That version of Walcott schools Quarry, Bonavena and Ellis and better than a past prime Floyd did

 

Your right Pete, the more you think about it, it becomes clear....Walcott hit harder than Bonavena and Ellis and was more of a pinpoint puncher than those two included Quarry, Jerry could hit but he was good vs the Slow bangers and had trouble with speed or trickiness...Walcott Charles and Moore were superior to Quarry , Ellis and Oscar B.

 

You forgot to mention that not too many fighters were the same after a Marciano fight...Rocky ruined a lot of guys, he never gave up and had late power and punched and Punched...Moore still had enough to fight 38-4 -1 in his next 43 fights but leading up to Marciano had his greatest run...To say Walcott was burnt before Marciano is really weak... Joe had an impressive KO over Charles and was amazing in the Marciano fight. I think you are the Kind of guy that if B-Hop got KO'd by someone you would say he is way past his prime (I think Pavlick and Tarver would disagree)...Walcott was a late bloomer and I saw a strong man in there in the 1st Marciano fight. Moore was peak and other than the flash KO was dominated and took a horible beating and he easily outpointed Valdes 2 times and KO'd Bob Baker ( some of the Big Boys of the era) Charles came back strong with a KO over Bob Satterfield and another BIG BOy of the era Coley Wallace to deserve a Marciano fight. Fight 1 was grueling and Marciano won it clearing dominating late but to fight Marciano back to back was too much for anyone and Rocky always improved the 2nd time around. Cockel was an easy fight for Rocky but it was a chance to fight in England ( great fight fans and $) Rocky loved England) but Rocky needed a challange not target practice and with all Cockels heart and try as he did it was just target practice.

 

Now that was a biased statement from you and you showed it...Marciano could be white or black and if he was black there would be no issue from you. He beat Moore at his best win streak and some over the top big guys of the time and was cleaning up on GREAT lightheavys like Maxim and Johnson...Walcott was a master boxer with some of the best footwork ever and a right hand and a hook that was a thing of beauty ( he was a dangerous foe in fight 1) and anyone NOT Biased can see it. Charles was on and off at that time but just came off a blazing win over Bob Satterfield and Coley Wallace both by impressive KO's...So if Marciano was Black instead of Italian and he fought and beat 5 # 1 contenders and 1 # 2 and beat them all woul dhe not be reconized...he would by me...Joe LOuis is my # 1 HEAVY....AND MY FAVORITE FIGHTER ARE Langford, Hagler,SRR,SRL,Marciano,Dempsey,Lewis,Armstrong,Duran,Olivares,Lamotta,Conn,Buchanan....I have seen fighters of all colors and nationality as great but some people have a Bias against Marciano because he is WHITE,SHORT, Undefeated but lets face it if Sam Langford was in that era and did the same, no one would question his greatness

 

I wouldn't sell Ellis short. At that time he was a force to be reckoned with. I was looking through boxrec. I saw that he had 2 knockdowns over Bonevena. He also scored a TKO over Martin, the same guy who would later brutally KO Liston. Do you think that the Walcott or Charles that fought Rocky could handle that Ellis?

 

I think he would be by far their toughest asignement of the names put forward e. g. Ellis, Quarry, Bonavena, Chuvalo.

 

Now that you mention Chuvalo, I recall reading who he said was the hardest punchers he faced. Interesting enough he said Frazier wasn't one of them. He said it was Foreman, Manuel Ramos, and Mel Turnbow. Frazier happened to face all of them. Someone mentioned in this thread about Frazier taking Ramos' shots which reminded me of that.

 

Cockell fought Marciano in San Francisco.There was never any chance Marciano would fight in the UK .
If he had fought Cockell, here he likely would have been dsqd.
Marciano was brielfy in Wales UK ,when he was in the Army ,but he never visited the UK again until long past his boxing days.