Marciano vs Holyfield

I had him winning by the same margin as well

 

the same one who had to be hospitalized after fighting 5'7 185lb Dwight Qawi who was a poor mans marciano? he thinks Qawi is tough? imagine if that holy tries to go 15 with marciano? he will get so worn down he wont see the 15th round.

 

Holyfeild likely hit harder than the version of Louis that Marciano fought,Joe didnt use his right against Rocky ,his reflexes were shot,having said that,I go for Marciano to beat Holyfield ,who somewhat reminds me of a bigger version of Charles,Holyfield would get involved in a brawl at some stage of the fight and Marciano carried his power the full 15 rds,I think Rocky tags him late in the fight .
Evander wins this by tko or dec if he fights a smart fight ,but I dont think he would ,he starts to slug and that aint a good idea with the stocky little Italian.Rocky by ko 11rds

 

im going holyfield split decision and the fight takes place in 1975 away from both mens time

 

At cruiserweight i like Marciano, but i think the heavyweight Holyfield would present a tougher proposition.

 

The comparison between Qawi and Marciano from Suzie Q was good, because Qawi fought the way Rocky fought, but like he also said, he wasn´t in his league exactly. The SD was a joke, Evander won IMO, but he had also trouble in this fight, pretty much trouble, and that against a 5´6- CW who lost his next fight to a mediocre fighter like Ocasio (mediocre in contrast to a ATG like Marciano), IMO that shows that Holyfield would only have a chance when he would use his superior boxing skills and his reach advantage to fights on the outside, but that wouldn´t happen, Holyfield is a born warrior who fights everyone the same way, in spectacular fashion, IMO Marciano TKO´s him late, he had more power than someone like Bowe or Cooper, he had great stamina and a unbelievable pace, he would wore Holy down...

 

Joe didnt use his right hand AS OFTEN, but I did go through the fight and see him using it at times. Check Louis vs Valentino fight on youtube 1 year prior to the marciano fight, louis is lethal with the right hand still. Dont forget in the marciano fight louis still had a very dangerous left hook which he tagged rocky with very hard at the end of the first round in a wild exchange. Same punch that louis knocked out the very durable lee savold with 1 punch. Remember the old adage, raw power is always the last thing to go. If louis reflexes were completley shot, he would never have been able to badly bust up prime versions of charles and marcianos faces.

I agree with the rest of your post except this point, Charles was a fast slick counterpuncher, not a brawler. Charles did brawl at times, but that wasnt his # 1 style.

 

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Cooper, an underrated and at his best good fighter, who was a favourite of me, has an impressive KO- record, hurt also very good/ great fighters like Moorer and Holyfield, but a man like Marciano, who stopped so many nr. 1- contender and HOF, hit harder IMO. But I agree with you, it´s not an easy thing to discuss about...

 

The 37 year old version of Louis that fought Marciano had little snap left on his punches. He could'nt throw the right hand straight and with as much authority as he could in his prime. He brought it in like he was throwing to second base. His hook was still dangerous but it's clear that he was'nt his old devastating self, not by a long shot so a prime Holyfield would have been a much more dangerous opponent for Rocky than an over the hill Louis. As for Walcott, I still think that Evander was a more dangerous opponent. If he did'nt punch harder than Joe, he punched at least as hard as Joe and threw more combinations. Beyond Louis and Walcott, what other big dangerous punchers did Marciano fight? Moore was 180lbs, Matthews was 175lbs, Cockell? I think nothing more needs to be said about him, Layne 196lbs(of rather soft flesh). Do you notice a pattern here? Charles was dangerous to a point but at 180lbs also. The fact is we just don't know whether or not Rocky could take bombs from todays behemoths like Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Foreman, Mercer etc...What we DO know is that Holyfield could and did, a number of times. Did Rocky really hit that much harder than these men? We're judging Rocky's power by what he did against men in his own era over 50 years ago. While it was impressive I think it leaves too many questions as to how he would fare against a modern fighter of greater size, speed and technique. I don't mean a tub of lard stiff but a man the calibre of a prime Holyfield who many would rate in the top 10-15 of ATG's. This is why I lean toward Evander in this matchup. No piece of cake mind you but favored still.

 

I like Marciano in this one.....The Rock fought at a middleweights pace...a lot of heart in both fighters...Marciano had more!!

 

Sam Silverman ,who promoted some of Rocky's fights said he would look the same against a "Ham &Egger " as against a world class opponent,Savold was around Louis's age and over the hill,a year is a lot when a fighter reaches his mid 30s ,plus Louis had a lot of mileage on his clock,he busted up Rocky's face with what was left of his jab,but if you look closely it wasnt the "coiled spring ,cobra type punch " anymore.When Louis's legs start to give out in the fight you can see the sand start to run out of his clock,he doesnt instigatre the action ,but waits for Rocky to come to him,that wasnt how Louis fought in his prime it was he who was the aggressor,against Rocky he is comparatively passive.Still a creditable win for Marciano but Louis was only around 50% the Bomber he had been imo.You can still retain your power ,but if the brain is slow sending the mesaages to the fists the hands dont get off.Similar thing with Liston as he aged.I agree Charles was a better boxer than Holyfield,but unlike Charles who was sometimes castigated for being too cautious Holyfield usually ended up in a shoot out,decidedly not the thing to do with Rocky.

 

Holyfield would be too much for Marciano. People in the classical forum have Marciano on this Godly pedestal like he wins every single mythical match-up and this is just one where I cant see any reason he wins. Marciano was a great fighter, had loads of heart, great power, and chin but could be outboxed. This would be the first time Marciano fought someone and he didnt have the advantage in strength. During his prime Holyfield was the smallest champion in the era of the super heavyweights and showed he had the power and strength to hang and beat most of them before his decline. Holyfield was a great counterpuncher, had a great chin and even better recuperative powers, and could fight on the inside and outside. Also people need to understand in his prime Holyfield never lost to smaller fighters. HOLYFIELD also took punchs from harder punchers than Marciano and didnt get stopped. Holyfield did tend to slug it out but could afford to because he will have a near 20 pound weight advantage and superior skills. I see Holyfield winning a close desicison or stopping Marciano on cuts from too many flush slicing shots

 

No, that would be a somewhat green Holyfield, who still won 11 rounds off of Qawi, regardless of the ridiculous scorecards, he was winning that fight about as handily as Walcott was beating Marciano, in other words very handily.

 

that was only Holyfields 11th or 12th pro fight, hardly him at his best. Holyfield is too much for the overrated marciano. Holyfield is faster, stronger, threw better combinations, had a better defense, and hit just as hard as Marciano.