Marciano vs Holyfield

of course he was past prime...he was in his 40's for God's sake.

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Look at who he beat during his reign after losing to Marciano...Yvon Durelle was his best challenger...he lost to Patterson for the vacant heavyweight title his best opponent til facing Ali...and defended against non-descript guys like Tony Anthony, Rinaldi(lost to Rinaldi in a non-title fight as wellatsch ) yes he was past prime.

 

Agreed, and I'll also ad that not only was he past his prime, but no matter what he did at lightheavyweight, it doesn't account for his inability to capture the heavyweight title. These are two totally different divisions. Only a handful of men who ever moved up to heavyweight from a lighter division were able to win the world title and virtually none of them were in their late 30's when they did it. Moore was burning the candle at both ends by being indigenous to another division AND being an aging fighter, yet he still managed to deck Rocky in the very first round of their fight. Now granted, Marciano went on to pounding him, but this says nothing about how he'd do against a late 80's/90's version of Holyfield.

 

Nino Valdez, Bob Baker, Bert Whitehurst, and Harold Johnson were good fighters, but Moore beating them, then giving Marciano a good fight is not going explain how Marciano would beat Holyfield. Evander was in a a much a higher class than anyone who fought in the 1950's.

 

Methinks Holyfield's HW reputation is built far too much on this single '96 fight with Tyson.

Depends on your view of Tyson at the time, I guess?? How much genuine heart did he have left? how much had his speed, skill and stamina eroded?

These questions have very different answers depending on who you talk to on the forum.

 

Marciano only went life and death with Walcott and Charles the first time, Moore didnt relly put up much of a effort so to speak, he was getting blasted like Don Cockell.

 

I rank Holyfiled below Walcott and Charles though.

 

If you choose to rate them above him from a legacy standpoint then thats fine. But, legacies and head to head matchups are two totally different animals.

Also, I'm not so sure why anyone would rate Walcott higher than Holyfield. Evander Holyfield took claim to being an undisputed champion in two weight classes and is the only 4 time heavyweight champion. Walcott challenged for the title 5 times in his career, and only managed to win it on one of those occasions. He had two failed attemps against a washed up Joe Louis who's career was being plagued by inactivity, one failed attempt against a former middleweight in Charles, and a last attempt at regaining the title against Marciano who finished him in one round. In a more modern era, it is doubtful that he would have received so many opportunities. Walcott also had many losses throughout his career. Holyfield regularly fought men who were bigger, stronger, and younger than himself. I know Jersey beat a lot of top raters on his ascend towards the title, but I really don't see how this places him above anything that Evander ever did. Holyfield competed against the very best heavyweights for over a decade, and accumulated most of his defeats between the ages of 36-45. Joe was done by the time he was 37, losing his last fight in a single round.

 

Why!

Now that I've stopped laughing ... I just can't stop...

Just how many undefeated fighters did the Holy one ever face?

Walcott would have delivered Holy's ass to him, and asked for change. It's a simple matter of superior boxing ability.

 

Now that we've established that you clearly don't read threads in their entirety, and that your posts mainly consist of , let me run through the material for the reading impaired.

I gave reasons that were written in clear black and white why Walcott should not be rated above Holyfield, and ones that you're not likely to refute with ...Run along now.....

 

Right before facing marciano, moore beat very good fighters like harold johnson, nino valdez 2x, clarence henry, joey maxim 3x, jimmy bivins, and bob baker. Moore was on a 45-1 streak heading into the marciano fight.

Moore's prime was 1947-1955. This is what I gathered from watching his film and looking over his record.

 

You say walcott took 5 tries to win the title, but he was robbed in his first try. Realistically he should have been the first two time champion since he won it from louis in 47, then lost it back to louis in 48 only to regain it again in 1951.

Louis washed up in 1947? Watch the film, Joe louis was still a great fighter in 1947 depsite being past his prime. Louis still had knockout power in both hands, still posseses great handspeed, top jab, and he was bigger at 213lb. He was 33 but had kept sharp with lots of exhibitions during the war, and looked brilliant knocking tami mauriello out in 1 round. I believe 1946-1948 joe louis knocks out any version of evander holyfield

So did Jersey Joe

Thats Laughable, Tyson was completley washed up. He was nowhere close to being a great fighter anymore. Tyson of 1996 would have lost to many many fighters.

 

Also I might add Jersey Joe didnt take steroids like Holy did, to get his chizzled body. He did it the hard way.