Marciano vs. Norton

You know, if Jerry Quarry really accepted a fight with Norton in 1975 on a ONE WEEK notice, I gotta say that Quarry didn't look like a slob who was totally outta shape..... Jerry Quarry weighed 207 pounds to Norton's 218.... YES! Quarry had some loose flesh off his sides of his girth, but that was because he was somewhat blown-up in weight..... A peak Quarry when young usually was between 194 to 199 pounds..... by 1975, 207 pounds was not all that bad.... Jerry Quarry was right there at 207 for Joe Frazier in June of '74...... Later on, Quarry wanted to be up between 205 to 210 so he wouldn't get pushed around by naturally bigger dudes........ So he ended up getting punched around instead......... Hehehe....

MR.BILL

 

Boxrec says Norton was at 207 for Garcia and he had had more pro fights than Garcia. If Norton was green, so was Garcia.

He weighed 210 for the first Ali fight and 205 for the second. Basically, Norton was about the same size against Garcia as he was against Ali. He was a mature 27 when he fought Garcia.

 

Both were green.... Fine with me......... Garcia won in 1970.... It happens.....:yep

According to my tape / tapes, Norton was an even 200 pounds for Ali in fight # 1..... 205 for # 2 and 217 1/2 for fight # 3....
:deal

Ali's weights were 221, 212 & 221 for them fights with Norton.......:thumbsup

MR.BILL

 

Hey Bill, everyone is entitiled to there opinion. It is hard to say when you are judging era's but harder in the Heavyweight division because of the size thing. Heavyweights used to train to make weight. I guess because of the 15 rds. Even Ali and Joe Frazier trained for 15 rds and it changed in the 80's....However the guys Ali had trouble with were the smaller more energetic type and Marciano had an unorthodox style. Marciano was a faster,stronger Bonevena that hit like Shavers with his right and Frazier with the hook and he had late stamina and heart...Lets not confuse Marciano with Henry Cooper...IMO Marciano in a war take Ali to the limit and does what Frazier did to Ali in the first fight and would take the next 2 also...It would be tough but Marciano had the will to win. I only see Louis and Marciano as the 2 heavys that would be able to beat any version of Ali...and it could be closer, indeed...but that is my opinion...styles make fights

 

Boxrec means well, but they screw up a lot of little details..... I've shook my head several times upon reading their dribble....:yep:twisted:

MR.BILL:bbb:good

 

weight is not the issue here, Quarry admitted to heavy alchohal and cocaine use before this fight,he did not train at all for Norton, he prosituted himself. he and his brother Mike were deep into drugs, Jerry starting late in life doing Coke and drinking with his new wife....Jerry and those close to him said he should have never entered the ring that night...the drug use was the worst thing Jerry did, I think he died around 50 yrs old and his drug and drinking took its toll

 

I'm sorry, but in terms of skill and savy and natural ability, Rocky Marciano doesn't crack my top-8 of all-time heavyweight champions..... Marciano fits in on my list between 9 thru 12......

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Johnson
4. Louis
5. Foreman / Lewis (Tie)
6. Vitali Klit
7. Holy
8. Tyson
9. Wlad Klit
10. Liston / Bowe (Tie)
11. Frazier / Marciano (Tie)
12. Dempsey
13. Jeffries
14. Baer
15. Patterson / Tunney / Charles

MR.BILL

 

I'm aware of that.....:yep

MR.BILL:rasta

 

Brave post on ESB but you are correct

 

Liston and tyson had the bully mentality and did not like it when there opponent was fearless....Lyle( no super puncher) had Foreman down a few times and Ali stopped him...Foreman had 6-7 rds to do his thing or he would be winded against Marciano...(terriblethought).....Frazier,Holyfield,Holmes ,Klitscko's,Lewis competitive and tough fights but I think you would have to crazy to think a time machine could take the hardness and conditioning of Marciano or the heart....Todays training would make Marciano a bigger man and would the time machine prepare those guys for a 15 round fight

 

The tape I have seen says 210. So does the Boxing Register. So does the New York Times coverage of the fight on April 1, 1973. According to the Boxing Register, which gives his weights for all his fights, Norton was never less than 201. It doesn't much matter, though, as he was at 207 for Garcia who was at 188. If an ordinary fighter like Garcia could stop Norton, it is certainly a tough sell that he could survive top level punchers of that weight simply because of the weight advantage.

By the way, I remember watching this fight live on TV and I remember the weights as being 221 for Ali and 210 for Norton.

 

Weight gain or not, Marciano would not be well off at 200 to 210 pounds of muscle.... He's still a hair under 6' tall with short arms.... At 200 solid pounds, Marciano's speed would be reduced, and perhaps even his stamina would suffer...... Marciano doesn't do well with the POST '60 crop of champions.........

Prior to 1960 I'd place Marciano in the top-5....

1. Johnson
2. Louis
3. Marciano
4. Jeffries
5. Dempsey / Baer / Charles

After 1960, Marciano takes a big dip.....

MR.BILL

 

Goddammit.... Now I'm gonna have to pull my tapes out........ :twisted:

MR.BILL:bbb

 

Marciano would get demolished by Liston like Patterson did. Styles is what it's about. A boxer will beat a big puncher. A swarmer will not. What Foreman did to Frazier and Norton he would do to Marciano. That is a fact. You bringing up Bonanvena to Ali shows how biased you are. Eliis nowhere near a peak 60s ali outboxed Bonavena. Ali would killed Oscar in 1967. Oscar was lucky he fought him after 3 years exile. Simple as that!

 

:hey

As likeable as Floyd Patterson was, he was NOT a great heavyweight..... Most know that, as well......... However, he was a great 180 to 195 pound fighter...... I've gone on record saying that Patterson MIGHT'VE schooled Marciano had they fought in late '56 or 1957....... Many disagree, and I'm not positive myself..... Its just a notion I have...... Timing is everything here...... I believe by 1956, Marciano's time had come and gone.....:bbb

MR.BILL