Marciano vs. Norton

Right and Archie Moore stopped Burt ...I think the size factor can come in to play and be a factor with a great big man ( but how many have we had)..Lennox Lewis...I think the Klitschko's are good fighters and quite Large for Marciano but the question could be can they go 15 rds and have there body's endure at a Marciano pace....also do they really hit harder than Marciano..I think test proved the power including weight factor was close.....and if we are going to go with the size thing than we have to say Ali, Foreman,Holmes and the rest of the 6'2-6"3 crew and a lot of the 6'3 heavies would have trouble with the size and skills and power of the Klitschko's as well...so if we go with the size makes a difference theory, we have to say Lewis,Klitschko's( Ill leave Valuev out) nay be the best ever...I think Lewis used his height well and rate him high but he also had weakness ( never KO'd a man past 8 rds) and had a solid chin but he was KOable, size was a big tool he had but when I watch the Ray Mercer(6"1 fight ( if I replace it with Joe Louis, I can see Louis stopping Lewis

 

It was Lindsay's 4th pro bout.

Johnny Shkor I think so BUT I will check it out when get back home next week. This is what I wrote some time ago:

Rocky fought 254 pound Jerry Humphrey Jackson in his 7th, not 2nd, Pro bout, and Jackson was no Lennox Lewis. He had a Pro record of 2-2. Layne was only 6'1", some sources have him less then that.

Rocky did fight 6'5" Pat Connolly who 8-5 when he fought Rocky, 6'5" Johnny Shkor who was 29-18-2 when he fought Rocky. Connolly didn't last a round while Shkor was able to survive until the 6th before being KO'd.

It's late so I am calling it a night.

 

I never mentioned Vingo, but he was viewed as a prospect and a solid opponent for Marciano. He had beaten fair fighters in Joe Modzele and Don Mogard and apparently had impressed some as a comer. Who knows now and who knows if the record at Boxrec is complete.

This is from the New York Times, 12-30-1949, the morning of the fight, which after explaining that the main event between Nick Barone and Dick Wagner had stirred little interest, goes on to talk about the far more exciting matchup between Marciano and Vingo.

New York Times 12-30-1949, page 23, Joseph Nichols reporting

"The speculation in the fight between Marciano and Vingo revolves around the probablility of the Brockton battler scoring a knockout. Marciano, victorious in all twenty-five fights, twenty-three by knockouts, is the 5 to 7 choice to win, but the Vingo fans are confident their man has the punch to put the first dent in Rocky's flawless record."

Considering that Marciano had won all 25 of his fights and was coming off a crushing knockout of Phil Muscato, a former top ten fighter, the 7 to 5 odds seem close to me. Vingo was clearly viewed as a live underdog. Perhaps he was more impressive in action than you acknowledge.

 

GODDAMN! These are the BEST and most HEATED exchanges' that I have ever dealt with.......... Good / Great ****........... I am worn out........ It's all good...............:shock:

MR.BILL:yep::bbb:deal

 

Jesus H. Christ!:good:scaredas:atsch:shock::rasta

MR.BILL:hey

 

Marciano was GREAT! But, he is still only # 10 on my ALL-TIME list of heavy greats....... Marciano CANNOT beat "Ali & Holmes" in my book............. NO!!!! Marciano CANNOT beat "Johnson or Louis" in a PRIME time machine, either............ NO WAY!!! Come the POST 1960 dudes like "Liston, Frazier & Foreman," I think Marciano is dead meat as well..... Marciano also cannot beat modern dudes like a prime "Tyson, Holy, Bowe, Lewis & Vitali Klit." No ****ING way....... Marciano at # 10 is fair with me............. Okay, let the arrows fly...........:yep:scaredas::smoke:shock::admin

MR.BILL:bbb:hatnono

 

Its pretty short, Marciano was charging up so to speak when he corner Walcott to the ropes.

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I agree he was a prospect, BUT I think he was far from being a contender at that time of his career. If he fought some 8 and then 10 round fighters before he fought Rocky, I might have done a lot better.

I hate to bring this up BUT, I think being a young good looking 6′ 4″ Italian White guy, that had some talent, actually might have hurt him some. Remember, the last White heavyweight champion was back in 1937, and that was 12-1/2 years ago.

If they took their time with him, I just might have become more then just a contender, he might have gone all the way, BUT we will never know for sure.

 

Vingo was not a puncher, but I think he did stun Marciano. The Vingo vs Marciano match was marketing draw in the North East because it had two top Italians meeting each other. Boxing in those days had great match up between city gyms. This was NY vs Boston...well almost.

I agree Vingo was rushed. Marciano people slowly built him up the right way.

 

One of my Uncles told me about Carmine Vingo, he had a reputation as a Big puncher, his record does not reflec it but a lot of his fights were not the 10 rd route...I think at that stage of there career it was a who wins goes on fight, unfortunatly Vingo's heart almost got him Killed but Rocky came out victorious over the 6"4 Vingo...I heard Vingo carried a lot of power but ofcourse this was an after prelim state and not at the level of Marciano/Lastarza 1, still a competitve fight for upcoming prospects but I heard Vingo had a lot of potential

 

You are stuck on a poor vision of Marciano and size is a large factor in your opinion...Lets take a 37 yr old JJWalcott and put in in the Johnson era...who would he not beat more decisively than Johnson a 36 yr old Jim Jeffies, Stanley Ketchel, tOMMY bURNS?....DO YOU REALLY THINK jOHNSON FOUGHT ANYON EWITH AS MUCH POWER, STAMINA,DETERMINATION as Marciano....Oscar Bonevena had Frazier down 2 times and held his own well for 20 or so rounds,,,why would Marciano who was bigger,more stamina,better chin, and MUCH more power do worse.,..Liston looked good against scared fighter but other than Big Cat (who was already KO'd in 3 by 174lb Bob Satterfield) who went at him without fear...I think it is fair to say Marciano would NOT have feared Liston....Tyson another one, who when he smelled bigger balls than he had and someone without fear changed his dance step...Holyfield,Williams,Lewis,McBride....Foreman went down and could have been stopped ( I have seen quicker stops) vs Lyle who was big but was not a puncher in the Marciano catagory...I see you are fixed on your opinion and are stuck on size and do not bring factors like heart, stamina, determination and courage and lb for lb POWER into consideration.

 

Plus another big factor==to me anyway==on the size thing; they are the bigger targets in there. Too big. A precision puncher like a Joe Louis can be smaller alright but when it's time for him to let his punches go against the big targets he sure didn't catch air and fall off balance. It's almost always the big guy falling off balance trying to catch the smaller and quicker elusive target. The good one's have the ability to hit torso or arms or shoulders with their shots and those big targets. And usually you'll almost always see things like better footwork and much better upper body movement with the guys that weigh less.

 

Thats not what contemporary sources and newspapers said.

 

Which Newspaper, the local one covering NY boxing? Bottom line is Vingo had a low KO%, and faced plenty of journeyman. He wasn't a puncher at all. If Vingo had better power, he have more Ko's on his resume.

 

I read some sources that stated that he was a big powerful puncher too, BUT like Mendoza said, his record doesn't show it and that is all we have to go by. With only 7 KO's in his 18 bouts and 1 in his last 8, really doesn't show that much punching power.