Marciano vs. Norton

Here's what Emanuel Steward had to say about Ali and Lewis.

Question: When he was at his best, do you think there was any heavyweight in history who could beat him?

Steward: "When Lewis was at his very best he'd have been very difficult for anyone to beat. And I've said this a lot. The greatest heavyweight of all time was Muhammad Ali. And I will say Ali would have had problems with Lennox. Lennox was still taller than Ali. And Lewis had a very good left jab himself. But that's the closet anybody-not that he might have beaten Ali-but I think Ali would have beaten all the heavyweights in history, that I saw, still. But I think the ones he would have had the most trouble with were Lennox and Larry Holmes. Ali would have problems with Holmes-in his prime. All of them in their prime. And he would have problems with Lennox Lewis.

 

Sounds like an honest assessment from one of the best trainers in boxing history. I heard he's a personal friend of yours and that you announced him several times in the ring?

 

Thanks. Good info! I think he's on to something, too.

 

Bum,

To cut it short, yes, Johnson fought some guys who were as strong or even stronger than Marciano....... Jimmy J. Jeffries was 35 and faded in skills in 1910, but the man was in-shape and physically strong as an Ox at 227 pounds upon his training / fight with Jack Johnson in Reno....... Yes, I know Jeffries reduced a shitload of fat during training, but he did it over a full 6 month period; so he was not weakened or drained on July 4, 1910..... BUT! Johnson, inactivity & the heat played a major factor and took his toll on Jeffries.... By rd 15, Jim Jeffries had his goose cooked............

ALSO! I know goddamn well Fireman Jim Flynn is no Marciano.... However, Flynn was a rugged & strong fighter who fought dirty as hell..... He had good bulky muscle for a white boy....... Was he the fighter Marciano was? NO!! But he was strong.... Very strong....

SO! I can keep a straight face when I say Jack Johnson could handle and whip Marciano in a time machine.......

I also have no doubt that a primed Joe Louis from 1937 to 1942 would and could hammer the '52 to '55 version of Marciano in a time machine..... The fight of 1951 was a great scrape at the Garden in New York, but Louis was well past it by then...... We all know that, too....

Prior to '60, Marciano ranks # 3 on my list..... Behind "Johnson & Louis."

MR.BILL

 

Quarry was washed up and in lousy shape for Norton. He took the fight on 2 weeks notice. Quarry even at his best was not strong enough to hold off Marciano for more than a few rounds.

Marciano KO 6 Quarry
Marciano KO 3 Norton

 

Week or two notice or not, Quarry at 207 pounds put forth a great effort and took some serious blows from Norton.... Quarry was beat / TKO'd, but he was gallant...... Quarry at least tried for Christ Sake.... Quarry may have been suckin' down beers and sniffin' Coke lines prior the fight, but he still could've kicked a lot of dudes' ass' in '75....

MR.BILL:deal

 

Let me see, Marciano struggled like hell to knock out the 40 year old blown up middleweight Archie Moore, Marciano lost to the 175 pound Ted Lowry, Marciano lost to the 185 pound Roland LaStarza, Struggled against the middleweight/light heavyweight Ezzard Charles and struggled against the 190 pound 40 year old Jersey Joe Walcott. Moore was knocked out more times than Norton, Walcott was knocked out more times than Norton. Norton fought the bigger and better opponents but Marciano would knock him out?

Simply amusing, I can tell most of you forum members are white. If the boxers I just mentioned who were smaller than Ken Norton gave Marciano trouble then the bigger, stronger Ken Norton would knock Marciano out. Jeesh you people are slow!!!!

 

Thanks for this huge dose of realism.

Wasn't Lowry around .500 when he beat Marciano? I think Lowry retired .500 on the nose.

Walcott is massively overrated on this web site and he dumped Marciano and had him going. The journeyman (sorry, but that's how everybody back in the day described him) was winning over 12 rounds.

But you forgot Marciano's inability to knock out Don Cockell. He hit Cockell with everything he had, yet he couldn't knock the man out, a man whom Jimmy Slade dropped five times and stopped in the fourth round, a man whom Randy Turpin dropped three times and stopped in the 11th--and Turpin weighed 162 that night!

Marciano was an exciting fighter. I think we all agree to this. But he became champion because of the state of the heavyweight division during those years. People who think Marciano would be competitive in the 1970s are seeing the world through distorted glasses. And, yes, I think race has a lot to do with that.

In fact, the main reason I think people build up Walcott and other fighters of that era is to make Marciano look better. They recognize that the facts get in the way of the collective fantasy.

 

Pontius care to take a nab at those two ridiculous posts above or should we just sit back and laugh?

 

I've got a feeling Norton could make it out of the early rounds, but I think he'd be stopped via accumulation around the 5th or 6th maybe. Marciano was a heavyhanded punchers, sure, especailly given his weight, but I don't think he possessed quite the single puch concussive power of a Foreman or Shavers. I think that's a fair comment.

 

Struggled to knock out Moore?

Moore had skill.

See, that's where ya'll are lost. Some of ya'll think boxing is all about size. Why was Moore able to beat people that outweighed him by 40 lbs?

It's called skill.

Like I said, show me Klitschko bending at the waist, and I'll give somebody 5 bucks.

 

Marciano mostly walk over Moore, outside of round 2, the fight was pretty one sided.

As for Jeff, Johnson control the fight from round 1.

I have round 1, unknown round, 4, 12, 13, `14, and 15. And Johnson was strong in the clichs in the fight. I did not score any round for Jeff. Johnson did what ever he wanted in that fight. Jeff was a shell, and all that happen was he got clich and pounded on, back off, clich and pounded on, repeat.

 

Nah, those two are aliases from the same person (Pepping it etc). After that glitch in the system when he got caught, he was embarrassed too much and basically got laughed at every time whenever he spilled his drool, but now he's back with a new name (or two), apparently, dumping the same, repetitive "Walcott was a journeyman" **** over and over and getting some reactions. The fact that both have a similar, low number of posts is no coincidence.

Basically, he wants you to get upset and make a long, serious reply. Ignoring him is what keeps him from reaching his goal, so that's the best thing to do. It's actually called an "Internet troll", read up on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll.

 

My favorite line up above is this "I can tell most of you forum members are white"

 

You don't think this is true? Are most people here black?