Marciano vs. Norton

Oh boy, now, "doesn't necessarily" is a way out of the point. It's a way out of just about every point. Very few things are ever absolute. Some small men can punch harder than some big men. On average, a bigger man can generate more force. On average a bigger man who knows how to balance himself is harder to knock down. These are not controversial points. The impact of size and mass is why we have weight classes. If size and mass were irrelevant, then we wouldn't need weight classes. Very few people today would regard Marciano a heavyweight, and unless he packed on a shitload of pounds, he wouldn't be competing for the heavyweight title. Are you seriously going to deny any of this?

Marciano proved he was not a one-punch knockout artist. He generally needed an accumulation of punches. Everybody who knows anything about Marciano's style and record knows this is a true statement. I don't know why people are trying to deny it. Well, I do know why, but spin is never legitimate.

Norton was a bigger, stronger, and better heavyweight than Marciano. Marciano would not have been competitive in the 1970s. Norton was. Norton batters Marciano.

 

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

1 thing I hate in every Norton match up is 'Norton loses by KO in 1-3rounds he has no chin'. Do people seriously believe Holmes and Ali can't punch? I wouldn't be suprised if both hit as hard as Marciano when they sit on their shots with their greater speed and weight behind their punches. Norton went 54 rounds with them. Lets not forget Norton with a bit of luck could be 4-0 against Ali and Holmes

Lets also not forget Norton was 36 against Shavers and 38 against Cooney, visably not the same fighter and possibly doen before he got in the ring with either

 

Just to add I'm not saying Norton beats Marciano but he might do his size/strength/skill/athleticism would all be tough for Rocky.

1 thing that ticked me off was the SHWs versus Norton thread with people picking some real bums over him

 

Marciano would KO Norton in the middles rounds for all the reasons previously stated.

 

I am sure Rex Layne would disagree with you.

 

I said all big punchers floored Norton ,find me one who didnt .Ali and Holmes do not qualify.
Dont say Quarry he was fat and finished.
By the way Joe Walcott said on TV that Marciano had better one shot power than Joe Louis ,and he said it when he was sitting next to Louis ,you can find it on You Tube.
Dont worry about my credibility ,you have yours to earn yet .

 

I stopped reading your post after this one. This is not only laughable, but preposterous as well. The only fighters Norton fought that were on the same level of punching power and finishing ability as marciano were Foreman, Shavers, Cooney..They all knocked norton out in 1-2 rounds. The next biggest puncher Norton faced, 188lb Jose Luis Garcia knocked norton out flat on his back in 8 rounds. Let me say in terms of brute power, Marciano was alot closer to foreman,cooney, and shavers than Ali and Holmes were to Marciano.

 

This is disaster for Norton. See the Foreman, Shavers and Cooney fights although Rocky did not usually start as fast as those guys did.

Marciano KO 3

 

The pre 1953 Marciano who was fighting all the time and less rusty, was actually a pretty fast starter and had alot of early round knockouts...partly due to lack of competition, but more so because he was alot fresher younger and had more snap on his punches. Layne Vingo Matthews Reynolds all didnt make it past round 6 vs Rock, and Louis was nearly knocked out at the end of round 1 by a marciano right hand.


When Marciano changed his style in 1953, he lost his one punch knockout power. Still a deadly accumalitve puncher, but not the one punch knockout artist who knocked layne and walcott out cold with 1 punch.

 

The problem with Marciano threads is the lack of historical perspective. When you have some, the idea that the man who gave all-time greats Ali and Holmes fits would suffer a knockout defeat at the hands of a fighter like Marciano sounds strange.

If Marciano had been around in the 1970s, he likely would have been instructed to lose weight and compete at light heavyweight. That wouldn't have been hard given his frame. He ate like an animal during training to keep his weight up, which was still only around the mid-180 lbs range. He couldn't have packed much more weight on given that frame. He would have been swimming in a world with fighters who were 6'1"-6"4" weighing 200-225 lbs, with better skills. It would be irresponsible to throw him into that environment, the same environment in which Ken Norton thrived.

Rocky would still have trouble, though, at least in the first half of the 1970s, given than Bob Foster was the reigning light heavyweight champ. But I think Marciano would have been competitive in the division. Many of his opponents back in the day were light heavyweights. Cockell. Matthews. Charles. Moore. It was a different time. Rocky would still have been a great draw. They make great story lines, which is, if we admit it, the reason why we still talk about Marciano.

Norton is underrated as a heavyweight. He was blown out by George Foreman, but then so was Frazier. Foreman was just a tremendous fighter. He would have completely dominated Marciano's time period. In the other common case, we see that Norton gave Ali more trouble than Frazier did. Once Ali had figured out Frazier and stopped playing, he won convincingly. Norton came very close to defeating Ali the two times he lost, and Ali wasn't playing around with Norton. How can anybody seriously make an argument that Marciano blows away a guy Ali and Holmes struggle with? Sorry to sound like Mr. Spock, but it's just not logical.

Norton was almost 38 years old for the Cooney fight, and Cooney was a monster puncher. He was almost 36 for Shavers, another monster puncher. Shavers didn't get his reputation for nothing. These were end of career losses.

Before that, excluding the Foreman fight, Norton was only stopped once, and that was a strange affair. It was his 17th pro fight, and he had his opponent, Garcia busted up (eye swollen, face bloody), but was hurt in the eighth round with a punch after the bell. Without allowing his corner time to manage the situation, the referee waived off the fight. We were stunned when it happened. Norton avenged the loss, but Garcia was no longer a top flight fighter by that point so I can't give Norton much credit for that. Compare Norton's early career with, for example, Walcott's, and its stellar.

When Norton entered the ring against Ali for the world title, he had won 37 fights, including wins over Ali and Quarry, against three losses, one early in his career, the other two against Ali and Foreman. He was the outstanding challenger for the world title. He was tested. And he almost won the fight against Ali. Some think he did. After that he defeated Young and gave Holmes fits. It was an impressive career.

Part of the reason why people think Marciano has a chance is because they devalue Norton's career. This fault combines with falsely inflating Marciano's abilities. The result is a bad conclusion.

 

Wrong. Marciano naturally weighed well over 200lb, and was training like a maniac to keep his weight under 190lb, he was cutting alot of weight to get down there his brother told me. Rocky himself said in his biography "I was never a big eater". Rocky could never have made 175lb without killing himself. In rockys amatuer fights, in his eearly 20s he was weighing over 200lb.

 

Norton is a lot better than most of the opponents Marciano fought so it won't be that easy for him as many of these posts suggest. I think he had the right style to defeat Norton but he was a lot bigger than 179 pound guys like Harry kid and fought much bigger heavies - Ali, Foreman, Holmes etc. Is that correct? only 179 pounds in the heavy division. Look at what happened to the great light heavy champ Bob Foster when he moved up against real good heavies. Frazier destroyed him and Ali played games with him.

 

When he was past his peak, Norton took some heavy shot's from hard hitting Cobb and still went on to win. Although I can't ignore Norton's loss to Garcia, after factoring a number of things, I still believe that a prime Marciano would get destroyed by a prime Norton.