Marciano vs. Norton

So which one is it?

How is he going to do that?

 

Shavers is listed at 6' 1" in the states, and by 1979, Shavers was at about 213 pounds for Norton............ For the 1970s, that was considered a good sized heavyweight.....

Hell, Larry Holmes was 6' 3 1/2" tall and 211 pounds for Ali in 1980....

A man 6' to 6' 3" tall and 210 to 215 pounds was BIG in the late 70s & early 1980s..... Cheers.....

MR.BILL:hey:deal

 

Anyone picking Norton here has a serious case of seventies-ism.

 

Simple..... Norton had a ram-rod for a left jab.... And Norton's overhand right was generally thrown with conviction, as well...... I don't think Norton would **** his pants by seeing a dude 5' 10 1/2" tall and barely 190 pounds in the opposite corner..... Norton's psych was "Iffy" at best, but he really only fell apart when faced against big punchers who were well over 200 pounds.....:yep

MR.BILL

 

I sure as hell do.... A great decade, too.........:hey:happy

MR.BILL:good

 

He fell apart against a low profile 190lbs puncher in Garcia, too.

 

Yes... But Norton was pretty goddamn green in 1970...... By 1973, Norton was much more seasoned and mature as a fighter......:yep

MR.BILL

 

Which big punchers didnt he fall apart against?

 

There's some wisdom to this. But with Norton it wasn't just down to power, it was down to psychology and style as well. He just didn't like meeting big punchers who were willing to trade. Futch said he froze up against big punchers, and when you watch him against Foreman, Cooney and Shavers it's hard not to agree. He also didn't do to well when being crowded.

Marciano would certainly crowd him, but would he be able intimidate Norton like guys like Foreman and Shavers seeemingly did? Hard to tell for sure. My money would be on Marciano, but if Norton can relax a bit and get into his groove it could certainly be interesting.

 

Agreed. In many ways Norton would be Rocky's toughest opponent. I think Norton hit harder than Walcott, or Moore, and had a fine attack to the head and the body. Norton would also own a clear edge on height, reach, and weight. If the two best punchers Rocky fought floored him, and others like Vingo or Lowry had him hurt Norton could do the same.

Marciano could not afford to look as he did vs Savold ( sub par ), Cockell ( sub par ), Lastarza II ( behind on points and fouling to help turn the tide ) or Moore ( just ok ).

He would need to perform as he did vs Louis, Wlacott, or Layne II.

Norton had a weird chin. Ali could not hurt him in three fights, yet Ali hurt Frazier. Quarry landed some solid stuff, and Norton took it, and fought back well. Holmes, who was a pretty good hitter could not put Norton away.

The Garcia loss was stamina related. Norton was somewhat green, and he avenged it. The Foreman and Shaver loss was chin related, and psyche related as Norton feared them, and was caught early. I do not think Marciano would intimidate Norton as much Foreman or Shavers did, and Rocky wasn't quite as dynamic with his hands or feet in as Foreman and Shavers could be. The Cooney fight means nothing here as Norton was already past his prime. Chins can go down hill quickly with past their prime fighters.

On average it took Rocky 9+ rounds to win his title shots vs slightly past their prime venisons of Walcott and Charles, who did not take the best heavyweight punch. I think those who call early Ko's for Rocky are off. Marciano and Charles stood toe to toe for a 15 round fight in a war.

So who wins? I'll go with Rocky via a grueling come from behind late round TKO. Norton sometimes froze on the ropes, and though his defense could be rather good, this flaw would give Rocky his chance to end it late...if Rocky could stand up to Norton's attack in the early to mid rounds.

60/40 in my book in favor of Marciano.

 

I tend to agree.

It is at best a bit of a leap of faith to pick Norton over any ATG heavyweight puncher.

You might be proved right but it is always going to be a leap into the unknown.

 

Bokaj is on the right track..... Ken Norton hated big punchers who were big dudes.... YES! We ALL know Norton was iced like a sickle by "Foreman, Shavers & Cooney." And, them dudes were all over 6' tall and 200 pounds as well...... However, Norton did look good in hammering "Quarry and Bobick" in 1975 / '76... Plus, punchers or not, Norton did perform like a world class fighter against both Ali and Larry Holmes several times over in winning and losing some decisions.... Ken Norton had the size and physique to be a true heavyweight champion, but, his mental make-up drifted here and there....

SO! Look.... I am NOT the biggest Ken Norton fan or poster of all-time.... I'm not even close to that.... I have questioned his worthyness into the IBHOF as well.... I just don't see a big guy like a 215 to 220 pound Ken Norton being afraid or overly concerned about a slightly less than 6' tall and 187 to 192 pound Rocco Marciano in a time machine....

I will say this about Ken Norton.... He fought a tougher crop of fighters than Rocco Marciano did...... Norton's opponents like "Ali, Foreman, Quarry, Bobick, Holmes, Shavers & Cooney" were either truly great or very imposing when they met Norton in the ring.... Hell, even lesser guys like "Pedro Lovell & Texas Cobb" are worth mentioning, too......

I don't think that Rocco Marciano beat anyone in the 1950s that Ken Norton couldn't have beaten...... Joe Louis was aged and slow in '51, but still formidable..... Same for Joe Walcott.... Walcott was age 38 in 1952, but rock hard and still a fine boxer..... Both "Louis & Walcott" were Marciano's BEST opponents in the ring..... Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were great too, however, I drop them guys down a notch below the dudes mentioned before..... Rolando LaStarza and Don "The ****" Cockell were average contenders of the 1950s.....

In a time machine, I see Ken Norton ripping Rocco Marciano apart... Marciano is not stronger than Norton and he would not be able to pin Norton up against the ropes to go to work on him, either... I see Marciano going for broke, but also eating leather left and right from Norton, as well.... At any rate, a great dream match for the ages..... Peace...

MR.BILL

 

Certain posters on the Classic don't see the difference between old, small HW's who could punch and the more recent guys.

Norton didn't have a china chin. He just thought some big hitters.

Marciano hit extremely hard, but it wasn't like he only landed one punch on Walcott or Charles. They extended him, and sometimes hurt him.

I don't see Norton being particularly effective, but to predict a one or two round blowout is stupid IMO (although not completely inplausible I guess)

Like those who think Barbadoes Joe Walcott would K.O Mike McCallum :rofl

 

I agree with a lot of this.

I think Norton would be comfortably ahead but worn down by about the 10th, when Rock would catch him, hurt him, and then finish him.

 

AND! I know goddamn well Rocco Marciano of 1952 / '53 is not and cannot beat a Joe Frazier from 1968 to 1971 in a time machine, either.... Marciano never fought a dude over 200 pounds with the aggression of Smokin' Joe........ Marciano was not known for backing up very much, but Frazier would push Marciano back and chase his ass right outta the ring...... The Frazier who was clobbering and kayoing dudes like "Mathis, Quarry, Ellis, Foster & Ali" would NOT be denied by Marciano... NO!!

MR.BILL